Flora Yao

A Conversation about Navigating Nuances in Communications

Episode Description

This week, Heather and Flora keep the conversation on presence going, shifting into the small but powerful ways we communicate—and sometimes miscommunicate—with each other. From reading body language to mismatched tones over the phone, they unpack how much emotional intelligence plays a role in truly connecting with others.
They share stories from classrooms, friendships, and everyday life where a single look, gesture, or missed cue changed the whole interaction. They also talk about meeting people where they’re at, noticing more than what’s said out loud, and choosing to be intentional in how we show up for one another—even in noisy, messy, distracting moments.

Key Points and Takeaways

  • Emotional intelligence is crucial in virtual communication as it is harder to read non-verbal cues.
  • Using emojis and gifs can help convey tone and intention in text-based communication.
  • Different people have different opinions on the appropriateness of emojis in professional communications.
  • Being fully present in communication allows for better understanding of others' emotions and needs.
  • Adjusting one's level of expressiveness based on the person being communicated with helps build connections.
Podcast Guest

Flora Yao

Flora Yao is a content designer, online community host, and executive administrator with a focus on visual content creation, iterative coordination, graphic design, communications management, event marketing, and making ideas happen. Since the beginning of TLC, Flora has advanced to the role of executive administrator of Threshold Learning Consultancy and Secretary to the Board of Directors of TLC Nonprofit, drawing on her experience as an online store manager, product design contributor, social media manager, and housekeeping team leader. Outside of her professional work, Flora enjoys caring for early learners within her community and is an avid bird lover. She is a mixed media artist with training in brand visuals and strategic communications.
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Host: Heather Volchko

Guest: Flora Yao


So we were just talking about all of the different kinds of mechanics of communication in terms of openness, or if it's through technology or face-to-face, or phone call. So I want to take this conversation and push it into some of the nuances. A big buzzword right now is emotional intelligence. I think it came out really big in COVID. It's been around for a long, long time, but it kind of came to the forefront in the pandemic of now needing to look at communication differently because you can't read all the things that you can read in person when you're living in virtual spaces. Right. We talk about from the neck up and how many things are hidden from the neck down on Zoom or anything like that. But there are so many little nuances that go into communication, if it's language or tone or even sometimes, word choice.


Yeah. I'll admit I have a lot of anxiety over phones, like phone calls and text messages, because I cannot read somebody very well, and I'm a big fan. And how I communicate with you is based on how I'm reading you. That is a huge thing for me. So, yeah, the pandemic was pretty tough.

Yeah, for sure.

I started using a lot more emojis and GIFs in my texting and stuff to try to help people understand. Hey, I'm joking here. Or like, oh, that was meant to be funny. I know the kids probably don't think that's cool anymore, but I guess it.

Depends on which GIFs, right?

True.

I was working with an organization, and they were trying to figure out some of just that hybrid work environment, and they were kind of in a standoff between people wanting to come back to work in person full-time and people who were kind of enjoying some of the remote options or the flexibility that working remotely was giving them in that organization. And we had this whole conversation around are emojis in professional communications are appropriate or not.

Which just kind of blew my mind because I definitely utilize emojis in somewhat informal communications. But informal doesn't mean personal to me. I think there can be informal professional conversations if you're using either chat or text with people that you work with, as opposed to. Maybe I view email more formally, but maybe that's just me. So I know I use a different language, but I would absolutely embed a GIF in a work chat to convey what I'm actually meaning by this, especially if it's sarcastic or something like that, just to make sure that there's no misinterpretation there.

Right.

But it didn't seem like all people saw it that way, that there were some people that were like, no, that's so inappropriate. That's not professional. But it opened up this really cool conversation about what different people view as professional or what they view as personal, and then how you use the tools at your disposal to communicate that.

So if that's okay, I just have a phone call because I can hear it in their voice, and I want to be able to hear it as opposed to not knowing what's on the other side of the writing. But some people view it differently. I can't read what's on the other side of the phone because I can't see it. And if you're not talking, I can't hear it. And you can hide all kinds of things in your voice that you can't hide, maybe on your body. And so people are like, no, I want to be on a video camera call with you.

Right.

I can't tell from just your voice. I have to see your face because you can make your tone sound one way, but then your face is betraying what you actually mean, or your body position, or whatever. Yeah, I get that.

Gosh. And I guess I didn't fully recognize how many ramifications, how many ripples there were from all of that unstated communication. Right. It's not just what you're saying, it's how you're saying that. And, gosh, especially through the pandemic and needing to leverage other forms of communication on a more regular basis, I think that became more obvious to me.

Yeah, definitely. I will say we kind of talked about this last time, with knowing who you're talking to and how, like you were saying, professional or just with your friends or whatever. But I definitely use different body language or different facial expressions of different people, the goofier friends. You can be way more. What do you want to call it? Expressive. Because I love to get laughs out of people, and then with other people, maybe they have anxiety or just aren't in a good spot.

You lower your tone, like your voice a little bit, and you use gentler movements. It's just really reading who you're around. And even though we're on audio right now, I'm very expressive with my hands because I'm trying to make a point. I promise. I'm not Italian.

No, I love that. Because I think you're using everything at your disposal to communicate what you're attempting to communicate. Right. Which then makes it easier for me to receive what it is that you're putting out there. Right, right. But I think part of it is communication, what we're putting out there. But then part of it is, are we noticing? I know in the classroom as a teacher, you were processing and dealing with so many different things and so many pressures and everything coming from all directions that it can be really easy to just sort of tunnel in and then just need to get through things as opposed to then also remembering. Oh, wait. But there are actually other little bodies around, and there are other humans that are involved.

Actually had a student point that out to me because I was sending an email back to a supervisor on something that was really time critical, and he had come up to my desk, and I was talking to him, and answering and just multitasking, and he's like, you are not looking at me. I am so sorry. You are completely correct. And I stopped the email. I looked him straight in the face, and I said, I'm sorry, can we start over?

But it's just one of those, like, thank you. Thank you for calling me out and for not being present. You have a need that you need met, and sure, I'm meeting your need, but I'm not showing you that I am with you in this. So I was so thankful. And then after that, we ended up putting up a little sign on my desk that was just like, present or not present, focus on something else, and feel free to interrupt. And I'm so sorry, or, what do you need? How can I help you? And students will come over, and they would change it for me, and they'd be like, you are not present right now.

Wow. Thank you. Thank you. And, I mean, for me, I've always worked in Ed, right? I've worked with emotional, behavioral, and social-emotional, behavioral challenges in all forms. And so it was a way that I could put that out there. That's things that they were trying to learn, too. We talk about emotional intelligence, right? So do I know my own emotions? Can I handle them and navigate them? But can I also then read the emotions of other people and understand those? And then, can I actually, the intelligence part is, can I make those fit together?

And so that was our hidden curriculum in every classroom that I've set foot in. That's kind of that hidden curriculum that we're working on, so we could make it super clear. Be like, this is where I'm at. And they'd be like, no, this is where you're at. And they can help me kind of learn. Oh, yeah, you're right. I'm not doing a good job with that right now. Thank you. And I'll work on that.

Yes. I think communicating with littles is one of my favorite forms of communication because you can be so much more expressive, because I don't know if they read you better or what it is, but I babysit every week, and the little guy, I will be very grandiose with everything. When he brings me something, use an excited tone and very expressive body language to show him, like, oh, my goodness, I'm paying attention to you. And I think what you're bringing me is very important and very cool.

And it's been quite a learning experience, for sure, to just, like, if he brings me something that might be like, oh, that's cool. He is excited, so I need to be excited. And I try to match his excitement or exceed it. Sometimes I'll exceed it to get him even more involved in an activity or something. But definitely communicating with littles is a whole different ballgame for sure.

But I think that fits you, right? You enjoy being an animated person, and so, man, the little ones will step right into that. Like, oh, that's what you're doing. All right, I'm in this too, right? Yeah. I think that's why I enjoy the older folks. I tend to be a little more subdued or a little bit more pulled back in my level of expressiveness, at least outwardly, in terms of physical or facial gestures and facial expressions, those kinds of things.

But in middle school and high school, it's all like that quick little side eye contact or a little sleight of hand nudge, nod looking over just the little teeny things that. It's like eye contact. Okay, you see me? Quick little something. You got that? Okay, cool. Right? And I love that so much. Communication can be so subtle, but it's almost like, because it was so subtle and we were both on it together, it almost feels more meaningful in a way.

And I've locked in with some really tough students who've walked through some tough stuff, and adults are maybe not their first go-to people for whom to trust. Right? But those little teeny nuances and showing that, no, actually, I see you. I get this. I noticed. Almost catches them off guard. But it's the little things, the little tiny nuances. So from big gestures with the littles, and wrapping them into their world, to those little things that it's like, oh, I notice you. I see that.

And we talked about that before meeting someone where they're at. If there's a little kid that's maybe not as expressive as I'm used to, well, I'm going to meet them at that level because maybe it makes them uncomfortable and I don't know, their background and what they're going through and stuff and, yeah, just trying to match, I think I can pick up on that pretty well, too. Is it matching somebody's, I don't know, emotional level of comfort, because I don't want to come into someone who's very shy and just be like, oh, hi, how are you?

Have a great day. That would be so uncomfortable for them. So it would be quieter, less moving around. And it's definitely reading someone and meeting them where they're at. Like you were saying.

That's really good, though, because I think that's something that, professionally speaking, I've had some interactions where it really was kind of just the approach that kind of made the whole thing result in a different place than what it could have. But as I'm thinking about it, it was probably just a misreading of that emotional tenor of the room. Not in the sense of like, oh, something bad happened, and so the room is sad, right? But just as a person, I prefer to emote to this degree.

And you came in too hot, there was too much, and now I'm clamming up, or likewise, in the reverse, you didn't open up enough. And so now I can't trust what's behind there. All of those kinds of uncertainties. It does seem like it's a bit of a mismatch between maybe the emotional expression that is given and then what that person is kind of okay with.

Yeah, I think a lot of people try to pretend they're okay sometimes, and it's very easy to be like if you're meeting someone for the first time and they're not in a good spot, but they're trying to, oh, I haven't met you before. Let me try. And so you think that they're like that all the time, but maybe the next time you see them, it's too much. And that's definitely something as well. When I meet a person for the first time, I try not to come in, all because that's how I am.

But I'm more like that with people that I know well, and they know that I'm going to come in like that. But if it's somebody new, I'm actually usually very reserved, and I am shy. Yes. But I'm also. I'm watching very closely to see how this person is feeling right now. And then the next time I meet them, I'm still reserved because I'm like, okay, are they still the same way? Because are they just like this, or did they have a bad day? Are they having a bad day? Now? It takes me a long time, but I can look at each time and put it together and be like, okay, this is how the person actually is, and they're doing okay today. Let's go in and quietly, let's go in and have fun.

That kind of stuff. It's a learning curve, for sure, but it really helps people feel comfortable with you. And, yeah, they'll be more likely to open up or become friends or whatever. The goal is working with them. They'll be more comfortable working with you or whatever it may be. Yeah.

But I think you're talking about that level of just being observant. And I think in order to be as thoroughly observant as what you're saying, that's presence. Right. We have to be fully present to notice those things and then notice them over time, and then that becomes kind of understanding them as a person. I think even when I walk into a classroom and I think I know someone, I'm still aware of the potential that it could be different. Right.
And there have been times that I've come in, and I know they're kind of like an upbeat person. And so I'm like, hey, how's it going? What do you need today? Where are we at? What's been going on? That kind of thing. And then you give it a couple of minutes, and you're like, oh, right. And I've just fully stopped and just said, I am so sorry. I came to one place. We're clearly in a different place. How can I support you right now and just shift, and allow it to be completely different?

But I think that, for me, has given me the openness that I don't even have to identify exactly where they're at. I'm just acknowledging the fact that it's not where I thought they were going to be. And then I give them the floor. Right. Like, what is it that's useful for you? How can I be supportive of you? And even if they don't have words to put it, they can dirct where that interaction is going.

"I think communicating with littles is one of my favorite forms of communication because you can be so much more expressive."

FLORA YAO


Right. There's a lot of when you meet someone, looking at what they're wearing and what bag they're carrying, and what brand of clothes, all that mess. But if you look at their face and their body language and their expressions when they talk, the tones they use can tell you more about somebody than the car that they're driving. And I think we are trying to get to know that person. Not the front that they're putting up or they're trying to feel a certain way, but the actual person. You learn about them by observing them, not what they're wearing and stuff like that. So I've definitely learned that, because don't judge a book by its cover.


All that stuff. And it's so easy for the first, what do you call it, the first impression to be, okay, they're dressed like this. They're driving that car, and their hair is this way. So they're this kind of person. And, oh, it's like, listen to them talk first and see their expressions and their body language, and that's the kind of person they probably are. So I learned not to be so judgmental. That's super helpful.


I run into that exact same thing in schools where it's this kid from this part of town, or this kid has had this kind of experience in their life. And so there are some of these automatic assumptions that are put into or onto that student's either story or experiences or even expectations sometimes. But I love that that's only part of the story, right? That may be true. They may come from that part of town. They may have this background experience, but that doesn't mean that in the present, all of these assumptions are actually going to hold true.


Something that's really hard to walk through is also. Maybe sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't right. Even for the same person. In this moment, yeah, sure, the assumptions fit, but in this moment, they didn't for all kinds of different reasons. But I love that you're pointing out that, yes, you need to be fully present to be observant, but part of being observant is almost proving or disproving our own assumptions from our initial observations and allowing ourselves to be wrong or to be disproven.


Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Coming into things with an open mind, almost. Yeah.

Sorry. My computer froze. And we're back. Oh, my gosh. So do you think it's easier to have an open mind when you're present, or do you think it is? Hold on, let me try that again. Let it. Do you think that in order to have an open mind, you have to be fully present or partially present? Is there any overlap between having an open mind about a situation, an interaction, communication, and just that level of presence that we are either experiencing or trying to portray?

Yeah, I think being 100% present will help way more if you're distracted or not really wanting to be there. So it will be much easier to pay attention, to be watching the person's face and how they're moving, and actually listening. Maybe there's some reading between the lines, and you just can't do that fully and get to know the person all the way, or be able to understand their emotions and what they're going through at the moment if you're not fully there.


And sometimes you just can't be, and that's not bad. We can't always be there 100%, but it depends on the context. If you're at work with your coworkers, you're probably not going to be there 100% all the time because you've got so much going on and so many things to focus on. But with friendships and those kinds of relationships, if you're making time on purpose, and I think you've talked about this before, to be present 100%.


Hey, let's go grab coffee. And your goal going into that is to get to know this person, be no distractions. That is 100% present. That's on purpose. Sometimes you have to do it on purpose. If you're at a really not wild, but a really loud party, lots of music, lots of people there talking, you might not be able to get to know someone 100% because there's going to be people coming up and saying hi and stuff like that. Big distractions. That's not 100% present. You can do your best, but that's not the thing. So sometimes I think you have to go out of your way if it's important to you to be 100% present.


I like how you're framing that because it truly is. I'm looking at it. It's kind of this way, right? In order to be observant, we have to be present. If we're trying to observe something but we're distracted, then does that mean that we're actually not present? I think there might be some overlap there. Also, what you're saying about the whole thing, you're in a big group of people, and it's so hard to even just stay focused, even if you want to have a good conversation with someone.


"Being fully present will help you pay attention, observe facial expressions, body language, and understand emotions."

HEATHER VOLCHKO


And I think of both, like families with kids and classrooms where maybe an adult comes in and there needs to be a conversation, or a kid walks up and they need some support, and there is this one on one intentionality of need at that moment, but there's also a bunch of other people around, and they also need all the things. And so, how are we juggling both being present with the current moment in the midst of all of these other needs that are definitely causing distraction? It's not that perfect kind of one-on-one or small group setting, because it's like four small groups all happening at the same time.


Right.


Because I think I just had a conversation with someone. We were talking about how to demonstrate care for people, and one of the examples was if you're coming over and you're going to have a conversation with maybe a parent and their kid is pulling at their leg or being a normal, needy little kid and saying, I need, I need, I need. Right. One way to demonstrate care to the parent is to care for the kid. Right? What do you need? How can I help? Right. And so I'm here to interact with the adult, but part of interacting with the adult is to care for the kid. And I see that translate into classrooms when different support staff or administrators are coming in and they have maybe a message or a purpose for being there is more teacher-directed, but they don't just come in straight to the teacher, do what's needed and leave.


They may also have some interactions with the kids and maybe sit down and help someone with something or give a kid a little redirection and nudge them back toward what they should be doing or engage with them a little bit in the process of then also accomplishing whatever it is that they're there for, but that kind of caring for not just the person, but also caring for the people around that person.


I think that's almost like extending out where we're talking, like body language and tone and word choice, but then expanding it even from the immediate person into caring for their sphere is also actually helping them be present in a sense. Right. You're kind of taking maybe some of their distractions off their plate for a moment so that they can actually be present in whatever it is that they are trying to navigate at the moment.


That's great. Actually, that just happened the other day when I went out with two of my friends and one of them has a little boy, and we sat down to eat, and the two other friends were trying to have a pretty important conversation, and the little boy's like, mama this, mama, mama that. So he was sitting next to me. So I just turned around and we started being goofy and let him try on my ear muffs and checked what he was eating, and I could not pay attention to the conversation at all. But I told him afterward I was like, hey, I was just trying to distract him so you guys could talk, and if you got to fill me in, fill me in.


And she was very grateful for that because she had some stuff going on, and she was just really grateful to have a couple of minutes to talk with someone while I distracted her feisty four-year-old.


Gosh. Well, I think this is leading beautifully into the next conversation, which is talking about the kind of conflict, that tense bit. Sometimes it's not as pretty as what we've been talking about so far. So I think I will cut it here for this week and catch you next week.


 All right, see you next week.

All right, thank you. Bye.