Host: Heather Volchko
Guest: Ann Potter and Miss Makayla
All right. So this is the last week of the month. This month, we have been focused on all things growth and progress, and kind of challenging ourselves to become more tomorrow than what we are today, and just kind of doing that in a bunch of different ways, and kind of acknowledging how that shows up. So we started it at the beginning of this month, back a couple of episodes now, talking about just ourselves and how we pick what sits with us, what doesn’t sit with us, what’s kind of for us or not. And then we took that and applied that to learning. So, how do we learn? How do we choose what to be curious about and grow, and how do we use the resources around us to kind of position us to do that?
And then last week, we shifted it to then say, what if we’re in the position where we have to help other people learn? So, if that’s as a professional or if it’s as a teammate, how do we help other people kind of do those things that we had sort of talked about ourselves doing the first couple of weeks? So this last week, we are landing it on a ton of just empowerment and encouragement, because learning is hard, change is hard, growing is hard. There’s a lot of just, like, uncomfortable things that can happen in this process.
And so we just want to land this whole month focused on growth and progress and change with just some encouragement. So I’m going to kick it off. Ann and Makayla, when I say, like, being encouraging or being empowering, what shows up for you? What are the first things you think of?
Ann: The power of a kind word? I am constantly amazed at how much anybody with whom I work, from the very little who are barely walking to the adults who think they know everything and everybody in between. If you just say, Thank you, I appreciate whatever it was you just did. If I’ve got a student who has particularly struggled with something and they’ve made even the tiniest bit of progress, a congratulatory, “hey, you did that very well.
You couldn’t get the loop to make a circle before, and look how you closed the ends together.” And they look at me like I have two heads because it’s, wait a minute, you said something kind to me because I find so many people at this point in our trajectory don’t ever hear a kind word. So to empower somebody to take the next step, you kind of got to recognize they’ve taken the first step.
Gosh. And I mean, in, I don’t know, special education or I work a lot in behavior, we are always talking about praise and noticing what they’re doing, catch them being good, like all those types of phrases. But I think that looks a lot of different ways. And we don’t necessarily just take it for granted of like, well, good. They should have. They should have done that, or they should already know that, but instead it’s acknowledging, hey, other times you would have just hauled off and punched that person in the face, but you just cursed them out and walked away. This is progress.
Way to go! We are moving in the right direction. This is great, right? So are we where we maybe want to be or feel like we need to be? Maybe not yet, but are we getting closer, and are we moving in that direction? I mean, last week we talked about just get the ball down the field, right? Like, can we just move it at some point? Can we just keep kind of growing and learning and moving, then that’s a win.
And you’re right, a lot of times, not just students but adults too, I’ll provide a positive point of feedback of like, that was really hard and you actually handled it incredibly well. They’ll go, wait, what? Really? Because they’re just noticing what was hard and not necessarily noticing the positive things that they were doing in the middle of it, too. So, yeah, I don’t know where that’s coming from.
Why is it so weird to receive something positive?
Ann: Well, and I will admit, in the heat of the instructional moment and the stress of the classroom and everything else going on, I was not always really good about making those observations, making those notes, because my brain was always engaged with, How do I put out this fire? What’s the instructional thing that’s coming next? I don’t have time to get through everything today. Which thing am I going to sacrifice? So that noticing when somebody did something well was not always at the top of my things to make sure I didn’t forget.
And increasingly, I recognized how much more of an effective person in the classroom I would have been had I taken more time to notice that.
Interesting. So I wonder, Makayla, when you are thinking about someone being encouraging or empowering, what shows up for you?
Makayla: Like, just someone being nice and stuff. Because on social media, there’s a lot of things that it’s like, yeah, you’re great at this, but that could be something that might not be a good influence. And I think you shouldn’t congratulate them for something that’s really bad and stuff, but it’s good to make progress, but congratulate them for the progress they made, but also kind of try to explain to them, but we still don’t do this.
Try to be nicer, but that is good progress, but just don’t do that next time. I think there’s a difference in supporting them and encouraging them to do better stuff.
Yeah. And I think you’re really noticing something that I’ll say right now kind of at the moment that we’re recording this. There’s a lot of contentious debates, and there’s a lot of people that have some very hot opinions, and they’re kind of throwing them at each other right now and on both sides. And I think there’s more than two sides, but on all the sides, there’s kind of a group of people that are encouraging that opinion, right? And maybe the loud voices that are saying those things, there’s a whole group of people around them being like, “Yeah, exactly!
Totally! That! Keep saying that. I agree with you.” But maybe not all the opinions are maybe, like, what you’re kind of saying. I don’t know if it’s, like, good things or if it’s like, maybe it makes sense in a little pocket, but maybe not when you zoom out and make it a bigger thing. So I like how you’re kind of pointing out, like, yeah, you can be encouraging, but can we maybe be careful about what we’re encouraging?
I like that you’re sort of noticing that. Do you have any examples that you’re thinking of that would maybe be an example of something that you see in social media being encouraged? Like, yeah, go you, do that. That’s maybe something that doesn’t sit with you, that you’re like, oh, but I don’t feel like that’s okay with me.
Makayla: There’s a lot going on right now, so I don’t think I can put something out there because there’s a lot of controversy, and it’s kind of, like, hard to say something without being like, without someone being like, oh, my God, why aren’t you saying this? And I don’t know if I really have an example to say.
Yeah, no, I love that response, right? Because I feel very similar. I didn’t call names out when I just shared what I shared. I didn’t call the actual thoughts or opinions out, right? And it’s so hard to have these conversations where it’s like, well, maybe it doesn’t sit with me. That’s not who I am, and that’s not what I’m okay with. And it’s not like I’m better than you, because I think these things, it’s truly just like we’re different people and so we have different thoughts and we have different opinions and we have different lives, and that’s okay. And part of all being humans together.
Right. But then it does make it extra hard to then figure out, well, then how can I encourage you? How can I be empowering to you and for you as a person to go forth and be you as a person? Right? And I want to be happy for you to be your own person. And I don’t much care if you are the same kind of person as me. I just want you to be the best kind of person that you can be. And how do we then encourage and kind of empower those people around us to be the best versions of themselves?
Even if we may disagree with either things they’re doing or beliefs that they hold, how can we still be encouraging to them?
Makayla: Be very respectful. I feel like, just don’t be so snarky about it, too. Just try to say it with a right tone and make sure they get your intentions of trying to be helpful, I think. Because if you just come off with, like, you shouldn’t be believing this, this is so much. They’re probably going to take that in a pretty offensive way. So just figure out your wording and the way you’re going to phrase it with the tone and facial expression.
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The first step is acknowledging what they do because so often, all day long, we hear what we're not doing right.
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Yeah, I think that’s something that I talk with teachers about all the time, right? It doesn’t matter what you’re saying. A lot of it is how you’re saying it. Did you notice your tone? Did you notice how you were standing? Did you notice your eye contact or lack thereof, right? So you may be saying the exact right things. And I work in a world where we’re working on behavior and teaching social skills, and a lot of staff want us to write down and put in the plan, like, what do I say? What do I do? And they want these very specific, like, I need to say this phrase, and then the whole team is going to say this phrase, and that will mean this thing.
And it’s like, well, yes, I’m all for common language and not making it even more confusing. Yes to all of that. But if you say it in a tone that’s like you’re saying, Makayla, kind of snarky. Well, that’s going to have a very different impact than if you say it calm or compassionate or genuine, right? Like, same exact words. Same exact words. But the meaning is very different, right? One might be incredibly encouraging and helpful, and the other one is almost kind of condescending and like you’re looking down on them, but it’s the same words.
I don’t know, Ann, I think you’ve done a lot of coaching with staff that have been trying to walk through some very challenging situations. If it’s students that are showing up with a lot of needs or it’s staff working in communities that have just been put through it, how do you encourage the adults that you’re with to either keep showing up or to acknowledge the fact that they are doing what they can do?
How do you encourage them? How do you empower them?
Ann: The first step is acknowledging what they do because so much of the time is very often spent with all day long, we hear what we’re not doing right. We hear what we messed up, we hear how we failed somewhere. We failed where we forgot to fill out some form and check some box in some obscure location. And I’m sitting here going, I have a five-year-old who doesn’t know how to use the potty and you’re worried that I checked a box somewhere.
So it gets really frustrating to look at the minutiae. And admittedly, in an administrator’s head, it’s not minutiae, right? But in a staff member’s head who feels like they are constantly putting out fires and don’t necessarily have the skill or the resources to deal with situations that they’ve never encountered before, never seen before. And you just feel like you’re always gasping for that next breath.
In coaching, the first thing you do is you acknowledge everything that you’re doing. And a lot of times staff are to some degree in their own silo and somebody does a walk through, and you see a snapshot in a minute and a half and you didn’t see either the fires you put out in the escalation to whatever was going on or the smoothing out of after the event happened, so that when you’re coaching staff, you acknowledge everything they’re doing and then instead of preaching, “and this is how you need to do it differently and better”, you seek:
“So, how can I help you? What are the areas in which you feel you are most drowning?” Long, long time ago, I had a principal assume that because I was an older teacher, I needed to go to the this is how you use technology presentation. And because my administrator directed me to do that, I dutifully did what I was told and attended. And while I was there, a different administrator who I had worked for prior and knew me walked in, looked at me, and said, Why are you here?
I said, because this is where my administrator directed me to go. And that second administrator just sort of shook their head and walked away because she knew that I could have been the presenter in that session, but that particular administrator had no clue. And as a coach, I need to recognize that people have all sorts of different gifts and talents that may not be revealed in every single thirty-second snapshot that observers will notice.
So as a coach, sort of like a sports coach, you take the lead from whoever you’re working with that says, I appreciate that this is the hot button topic at the moment, but this other area is where I really need help and support to better support my kiddos.
Yeah, but I love that you’re seeing the whole person. You’re seeing not just what’s right in front of them, not just what’s either the assumed need or the noticed need, but you’re also seeing all the different things that they may have to offer and where they may have some strengths that they may not even notice as strengths. Because a lot of times I’m working with staff that are doing a whole lot and they’re kind of underselling themselves because it’s not having the outcome that they want it to have.
And so it’s not, well, I’m doing nothing and nothing’s working. It’s no, look at all the things that you are doing and let’s figure out of those things which ones are being the most impactful, because let’s keep doing those and please notice that you’re doing them. That’s amazing. I think of times, Makayla, where you’re sharing stories and you’re giving examples of, like, let me tell you about my day, and here’s what’s going on, right? And there’s been moments where I’ll stop you and be like, can I just notice for you for just a, like, that’s a really grown-up thought.
That’s a very adult perspective. Or like, you handled that situation incredibly well, where in the moment you’re just like, oh, my gosh, this and that and the other thing. We only see our experiences, right? And sometimes it can be so helpful and honestly encouraging to have someone outside of our situation kind of pause us and say, hey, but look, yes, it’s frustrating. Yes, these things are hard. Yes. To all of that.
But are you also noticing, right, like, you’re still showing up, you’re still trying to figure it out. You haven’t given up yet. You’re still in this, and you’re active. And that’s why it’s probably frustrating is because you haven’t figured it out yet, right? But look at all the thinking and the skills and all of the things that you have grown in, even by trying to figure it out, to have someone outside of us kind of pause us in our tracks and notice, oh, wow, did you see this? Did you recognize that? This is different, right?
I came in last month and saw this, and look at all these things that you’ve done since then. This is amazing. Sure, maybe we’re still not where we want to be, right? We haven’t reached whatever goal we want to be, right? But there is progress. And sometimes it does take someone outside of us to kind of pause us and notice that for us, and really kind of make us think about it. I don’t know. I’m thinking of different mentors in my life that I’ve gone to for different things.
Kind of what we were talking about a couple of weeks ago. And if I have something new I want to learn, do I learn it? How do I learn it, and who do I go to to help me learn it? And sometimes it’s just a mentor who has done this or been there, done that, and they’re kind of further ahead than me. And they can, knowing what they know, be able to look back and see what they needed at different points in time in their own learning journey, and they’re able to say, hey, I got you in this, right? Because you’ve got this figured out. And then here’s the next step. Here’s a couple of other things you need, right? And they can kind of pull us along in our own journeys through kind of having been there, done that. They can guide us. They can be our mentors or our coaches or whatever words, titles we want to put on these positions.
So I’m wondering, in your lives, have you been in that situation where you have been able to kind of turn around and help someone else out? Like, hey, I might not know all the things. I don’t know exactly what you’re going through, but I might have some pieces, and I’m happy to share some of that, my learning, with you so that you can learn it, too, or maybe learn it faster, or maybe not have to experience the same experiences that I learned.
Have you had any opportunities to do that for people in your lives?
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Try to say it with the right tone and make sure they get your intentions of trying to be helpful.
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Ann: As close as I can come is when mandates have come down the pike, and staff is freaking out over yet another apparently paperwork-satisfying mandate. How can I meet the mandate, accomplish some degree of what’s being asked, and still maintain my sanity? So that at one point, when differentiated instruction was presented and it was presented as if you had to prepare a separate learning plan for all 30 kids in your classroom, the teachers lost their minds.
And one of the things I was able to do is say, you have this cluster of five children with this particular issue. Write one plan and put it on rinse and repeat. And if you know your population, you can structure a goal so that it’s useful for more than one cycle, so that you don’t have to lose your mind all the time. So it’s a way of taking a particular nugget of something that you’ve got experience with and packaging it in such a way to pay it forward so that when that cluster of teachers gets whatever the next mandate is, where their heads explode, they can say, oh, but I can repackage this a little bit to still check the box and make it useful for my particular group of people.
Yeah, you’re making me think of an interaction. I had, gosh, maybe my first or second year teaching, and it was with a teacher who was kind of counting down the days to their retirement. An amazing teacher, someone I absolutely admired and was so thankful that I could work with, but they were just so done for exactly what you were talking about is, like, the metrics and the oversight and all these new mandate-type things that were coming through.
And she was just like, when I started being a teacher, we could just teach. We could just be creative. We could help them learn, right? Yes, we had standards. Yes, we had targets. Yes, we knew what we were trying to get them to learn, but there was more freedom in it. And now you have to do it this way or you have to do it in this timeline, or there’s more parameters around it. And she was really frustrated by it. And it was interesting because I hadn’t seen it that way, because I didn’t experience that, right? In my teacher prep, it was a given, right? Like, these are the standards and these are the mandates, and these are the parameters that we work within.
So get creative in those parameters. And so we had this really cool conversation where she was just like, I wish I could see my profession. Like, you see it because you see an opportunity. Like, you see all of the constraints and all the like, oh, we have to do this. But you actually know how to work that in such a way so that you can have fun and do that. She’s like, All I see is it’s no fun anymore.
And so we actually work together. So that you’re. Exactly. What you’re saying is, how do we find the systemized ways that we can do what we need to do, but do it in a way that still gives us breathing room, and we can still have time for those teachable moments and the oops that happen in the classroom. And it doesn’t completely derail everything, but we are still doing right by either the materials and resources we’re supposed to be using or the timelines that we’re supposed to be hitting right.
We’re staying within our bounds, but we aren’t kind of chained or bound to those boundaries. And it was just, like, an interesting moment to go, oh, two different people, different points in their career. I admired her and looked up to her a ton, but she was looking at me in reverse, being like, man, I admire you, and how that works out. That is such a cool opportunity. I don’t know, Makayla, are you thinking, in your student experience, do you have people around you that are like, yeah, you’re maybe your peers or your friends, but they’re so much better at this than I am, or? That’s really cool. I love that about them.
Do you see your peers that way?
Makayla: Yeah, I think their skills are really cool to have. And don’t get me wrong, I really do wish I can have them, but it’s good for them. It’s just nice that they have them. I’m not jealous in a way, but I’m just happy that they have them. I’m happy for them.
Ann: Oh, yeah, sometimes I’m jealous. There are moments of jealousy, going, oh, man, I wish I could do that.
Makayla: Yeah, sometimes. But I’m really happy for them that they have that. And I do wish I could have it, but we’re all different in our own ways, and they’re really good skills, but I also have mine, and I’m just appreciative that I have skills that I’m also really good at.
Yeah. But I think if we can see that in other people and we get those opportunities to be like, hey, you’re really good at this, that can be so encouraging because especially if I don’t think I’m very good at it, and then someone says, no, actually, you’re kind of a rock star. I’m like, wait, what? Really? Because sometimes all I see is what I need to grow, what I need to learn, what do I need to progress? Right? Like, I’m not where I think I should be, but someone else says, Wow, this is so cool. I’m like, wait, what?
Right? So to be able to see those things in each other is really neat. But then to be able to communicate that, that is the empowerment piece. And I think if we can, then see that in other people put words to it, then we’re empowering them to keep making those choices, like keep learning, keep growing, keep going, and being awesome and doing more of whatever those things are. Keep growing in those ways.
And especially when it’s really frustrating or really hard, because change is hard. To have someone say, No, look at where you used to be, look at where you are now. This is cool. Even if it’s just yesterday, today, and little stuff. This is growth. This is progress. And by putting words to it, acknowledging it, that can be that empowerment, that can be that encouragement, that kind of just keeps it going. Right? And I think that’s for anybody, right? Like, if you do that to me or if I do that to you, it’s all going to be on different stuff because we’re all on different paths and we’re all trying to figure out different things.
All right, well, I am super thankful that you have spent this month with me having these conversations and talking all about growth and learning and change, something that can be kind of hard at times. But I think there’s also some really neat opportunities in there. And thanks for having the conversation from two very different corners of life, right? I am lucky I get to be sort of sandwiched right here in the middle of it, with having been where Makayla is and aspiring to be where Ann is.
But thank you for having this conversation with me this month, and I look forward to our next ones.
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