Host: Heather Volchko
Guest: Matthew Hayes
All right. It’s hard to believe we are at the end of the month, and with all conversations that you and I have, we are always talking about the what now and the how now, but also, how can we just make this business as usual? How can we just be this kind of a leader? How can we just integrate these ideas into just how we do our job, live our life? It’s not just a good idea for the moment that it’s actually sustainable. It’s something that could then, you know, perpetuate just within kind of our natural dynamics from here on out.
So right before we hit record, we were talking about just right now, kind of being this crazy moment in just the workplace with lots of different generations, lots of different, you know, cultural backgrounds and everything, all mashing into the same workplace at the same time. So do you want to jump in and share a little bit more about kind of what you were talking about?
Yeah, for sure. I mean, you hit it on the head. But it is really a monumental time in human history, right? Because there’s never before been a scenario where you have five plus generations in the same building, right? You have 70 plus. I mean, and also, this is part of just the world, socially, of where we are is that things are more expensive. The retirement that our grandparents had is not sustaining them currently.Right?So we have older folks who have to go to work, right?
So their seventies and eighties. We have the boomers who are now kind of leaning towards their fifties, sixties. We have our millennials coming right behind them. Our gen z’s and our gen Y’s, right? You have people from, you know, 14 to 40 to seemingly 400, right? And they’re all in the same building. And, like, as a leader, it’s so important that I. And this is why this cultural conversation is so crucial, because my role is, how do I build an environment where all of those people can see themselves, right, and where they can see the value in each other, right? Because at home, grandma doesn’t always listen to grandkid, right?
But in the workplace, I’ll have two seemingly similar people, and they have to be able to work together. So I think the role of a leader, this is kind of how I visualize it, is if I was to have a backpack, and inside that backpack, I had, like, seven balls of yarn. My role is to know how to pull a little bit of each string and how to weave them together to make a beautiful tapestry, right? So in my environment, I have tons of different cultures, not only from a generational standpoint, from ethnicity standpoint, from racial backgrounds, from personal experience, backgrounds, from sexual orientations, from, you know, socioeconomic scenarios. Like, there’s just so many balls of yarn in an organization.
And my role as a leader is I need to learn how to weave them together, right? Not to say that this one’s better than the other. Not to say, well, this one has more strings on it than this one does. Or I really like this color because, you know, my grandma had this color curtains at home or whatever the case, I got to learn how to pull it all together to create this. And I love the word tapestry very intentionally, because what that is, it’s a bit of a smorgasbord, right? It’s a bit of. A little bit everything.
Because I did a workshop called the tapestry of inclusion about a year or so ago, and that was the whole mindset of it, is weaving together these different pieces that now create a much more beautiful outcome. So I think really knowing where we are at this phase in human history, in business evolution, that really putting some practices in place that can build a sustainable culture needs to be priority number one for leadership, right?
Now, the team doesn’t necessarily know those things. Just like a parent at the house, the kid doesn’t know that you got up early and washed the dishes and put the things away and took the trash out. They just wake up and they’re like, oh, the house is clean. So the same thing. When I’m running an organization, it’s not necessarily my team’s responsibility to know those things. I need to be, as a leader, developing the space so that they show up and they’re like, oh, my God, I just love it here for some reason, right? Every time I come to work, I just feel better and I leave feeling charged, which is a very uncommon response to the workplace, right? But if I can get the response, if I can build a space where that becomes the outcome of my staff, my employees, my team, that is the biggest game changer, which really goes back to, do I have some core values in place? What does our culture stand on? What are the pillars of how we operate?
I was just at a large automotive manufacturing company recently, which had over 500,000 global employees, and I sat with some of their leadership team, and they talked about the constant struggle that the culture is having because they don’t operate with core values.
And I asked them, what drives you? What is the through line, through everything that you do? And it was a bit of a hard question for people. And what they are constantly seeing is their CEO has turnover. So as a CEO comes in, every CEO brings their values, right? The CEO is not stepping into the values of the culture cause those don’t exist. So if the culture was to have values, even when leadership changes, they know what role they play, right? But if those values aren’t there, then everyone, every couple years, when there’s new teams, and this is constant with everyone, there’s turnover, there’s promotions, there’s internal hiring, people move, there’s family scenarios.
So leadership is constantly changing in an organization. But if the leaders don’t know what they’re stepping into, that there’s not a flow for them to just align themselves with because that value and that culture is already built out, then every time that change happens, change is going to happen everywhere because it’s going to trickle down and there’s going to create confusion. It’ll create chaos.
And when people are confused, they slow down. When they don’t know where to go, when they have lack of clarity, they stop trying as hard, right? So having these core values, I mean, I know we talk about it like, oh values in an organization, and sometimes it can sound a bit, like, ethereal, right? In reality, those values drive performance because it gives clear standards of how we operate. And I think about that even with, like, sports teams. Like, I’m a Lakers fan, and I think about, like, the culture of the Lakers, right? And like, how that was and every new rookie that got drafted to the team, especially when you’re playing with Kobe or one of the greats, right? Like, you know, the standards of how we operate.
But you also know that these standards are for a purpose because our goal is to win the championship. So as a leader, I want to create these standards and environment and culture for ultimately the team’s success. That’s the whole purpose. And kind of going back to our last episode of valuing the people, understanding their role, contextual, behavioral analysis, bringing all those things in to where now I put these things in place, people know what role to perform to.
They understand a leader that prioritizes their well being. And now, together, we can move forward. So, like you said when we started here, there’s so much going on, right? Unprecedented in human history. And if I feel like, as a leader, I need to be perfect, I’m going to become very quickly overwhelmed, right? And realize that my job is not perfection, it’s progress. And if I give that same expectation to the people that I’m leading to, the environment that I’m creating, don't be scared to fail, right? Embrace it, right?
The goal is learning. The goal is creativity. The goal is adaptability. It’s mental agility. It’s finding solutions. It’s driving change and innovation. All these things happen from failure. You only learn from messing stuff up. I constantly am taking notes all day long on my notepad, and people will, like, look at me writing down notes and think it’s impressive. And I’m like, where do you think I learned this lesson from?I just messed something up! You’ve only seen the second part.
The first part of it was the failure, and it was the failure where I learned the lesson. And now I’m trying to just remember the lesson. And that’s where I see a lot of people drop the ball, is they mess something up, they want to adjust, but then they don’t put any action steps behind that. And there’s like, oh, okay, I’ll try it better next time, but don’t actually write it down. Don’t actually learn the lesson. Don’t actually… There’s two pieces when it comes to leadership that I see a lot, and so many folks are really, really great when it comes to knowledge acquisition.
A lot of people suck when it comes to knowledge application. And it’s that little bridge that because we live in an information age like we talked about, where there’s so much accessible, right? I can look up team building exercises. I can type into chat GPT this is what’s going on with my company. Give me ten fixes and it’ll give it to you, right? Now, do I apply any of them? Do I try any of them? Or do I just say, oh, I looked it up and tell my boss I looked it up, and here’s a list of ten, and then no one does anything with it.
So it’s not that we don’t have the resources, we don’t have the tools, it’s not that we don’t have access to the knowledge base to help us grow as a culture, as a team, as an environment. It’s just, do I prioritize those things and do I prioritize myself? Because often my lack of priority around the things that matter to my team is because I’m not prioritizing the things that matter to me first. And I’m already shortchanging myself.
I’m not giving myself enough sleep, I’m not giving myself enough self care. So when it comes to, well, how do I take care of the other people? Well, I’m just gonna treat them the way I treat me, which I don’t take care of me, so I’m not gonna take care of you either, right?
So all these things start with a ripple effect of why would I value the core values of an organization if I don’t know my own core values, right? And everything starts internally of, I need to set that example, I need to know what my role is. And as an example, that’s demonstrated behavior. If I want a culture, if I want a team, if I want a sustainable workforce that values collaboration, that values transparency, that communicates regularly and openly, am I doing those things?
Do I collaborate? Do I share transparently? Am I vulnerable with my team? All this stuff starts with example, starts with me, starts with what tone am I setting in the culture as the leader? Because my team is simply going to follow me, just like your kids do what you do. And one thing I learned early on is that kids, just like team members, will do 50% of what you do right and 100% of what you do wrong, right?
So literally, when you start, and this is the thing that I had to learn in my business, whenever someone was doing something and I was like, why the heck would you do that? And I had to remember when I was a new person. I mean, I did that same thing. Like, I asked that same question, I went rogue in that same way, right? Like, they’re going to copy you because you are their example of what this culture is.
And am I setting that right example? Do they have the right values that are driving me, that then I can implement into everyone that I work with and come in contact with.
But that’s really that sustainable piece, right? If you. If you actually have your decision making grounded in more than just the decisions that need to be made, that means it doesn’t matter who you are, where you’re coming from, if you are a fit with that culture, you will be a fit with the way that work is accomplished. But that is, I think, the biggest gift any leader, and I do kind of, especially in this sense, use leader without titles, right? Like, if you have influence in whatever that sphere, may be the best gift that you can give, whatever it is that you’re attempting to accomplish with whoever, you know, those people are around you.
It is having some kind of a foundation from which all of y’all can, can operate. And that’s where you’re talking about, like, yeah, most schools have, you know, mission statements or a list of values or kind of core character qualities, those types of things. There’s all these buzzwords for it, but a lot of times it’s a poster near the front office. Does it actually make its way down the halls? Is it actually showing up in the way we interact during our meetings, that we interact with our communities? Is it, you know, is it actually permeating who we are and how we do things? Or is it like, oh, yeah, that’s what that poster was, right? Like, is there any actual stickiness to it? So especially in education, you’re talking about, you know, there’s lots of different generations in the workplace. I mean, no one prepares you for being your first year teacher and your paras kids are your age, right? Like, my first job, and she was gracious and we worked it out. But, like, no one prepares you to walk into your classroom on day one and give your mom direction, right? Like that, that’s not part of it, right? But then to both be able to view the work situation and to respect what each other have to offer. Like, she knew that I had things that she didn’t have. I knew she had a lot of things I didn’t have. And what we were going to do was going to require both of us.
But to be able to take that view into any team of any magnitude, that’s kind of like a choice and a perspective that says, I am choosing to see everybody around me, not just for how they agree with me, but how they’re different from me. And we talked about that back, you know, earlier this month, is, can we actually have that perspective, have it rooted in some of these values, and then from there we just do our thing and that’s sustainable.
That is different. Depending on who the leader is, who the people are that can stay the same, even if different people or the projects, whatever needs to get done, all of that shifting out, because that kind of intangible thing is really what’s grounding it and pushing that work forward.
Yeah, I think there’s two big steps that kind of lead to that because I love that example you shared. And, you know, if and I agree when we’re talking about leadership here, it’s influence, it’s not position. So as a leader, as someone who can influence an environment. I think one of the most important things is, you never miss an opportunity to communicate the vision and values. That’s one thing I learned very early on, is that there is no moment too small, right?
I see so many people, they wait for, like, a large, all hands type meeting or, like, you know, an annual conference. And, like, it’s those one times a year where they’ll talk about, this is what we stand for, and this is why it matters, and we are going to progress the needle, right? And it’s like that one time, and then the rest of the year, like you said, it’s a little poster by the front door. So I think sometimes what we can do as leaders is we can make some dangerous assumptions that people know these things, that they understand these things, and that they think about these things, right? So one of the things I learned early on is you never miss an opportunity to communicate the vision and values, right? Even if it’s a small, little side hallway conversation and someone dropped their cup of coffee and they’re frustrated, and it’s like, man, I’m so sorry. I’ll help you go grab another cup of coffee, man. And then exemplifying and showing, this is why, right? Like, man, I so value and appreciate you. I know you had a rough day. Thanks for even being here today and showing up early.
Let me go grab that cup of coffee for you. I know you’re in a rush. I’ll go take care of it, and I’ll meet you at your classroom, right? And, like, small little things where, you know, we can showcase it and tell it and speak it and just get people to understand it. Because what that does is it leads to that part two, which is now we can create champions of the culture within the culture, right? Because the more that I communicate it to the team, now the team starts to become embedded with it, now it becomes who we are. It’s less of a task we need to do. And the way that I always frame it when I’m working with large teams is, I call it organizational immunity.
The same way I have an immune system in my body. I’m not thinking about a specific virus or a cold or a flu or that. I just want my body to be able to handle whatever comes. So I prepare my body for whatever comes. And so many people, when they approach culture, when they approach teams, they’re doing it for, like, I just need a shot for this. And it’s like, yes, you do. But also, when your immune system is good overall, it takes care of that and the hundred other things, right? So when I’m looking at a team in an environment, I want to build that immunity into my culture so that even when Sally’s upset, we’re okay.
Even when there’s a misunderstanding at the meeting, we’re okay. Even when the budget gets cut and we have to slow down on some initiatives, we’re okay. Because we have the system built up. We’re strengthened on the inside, so that no matter what comes and attacks us, we’re fine, right? Because it’s one thing to have the vitamin C on the counter. It’s another thing to take it, right? It’s like one thing to have the poster on the wall. It’s another thing to apply it.
And, like, we start applying this and empowering our people, not missing opportunities to communicate why we do what we do and what we do. Sometimes there’s people who don’t even know what we do. Like, I’ve gone into an organization, and I asked that question to the entire leadership team. Not the employees, the leadership team. And I said, hey, real quick, take five minutes. Just journal down. What do we do here?
And everyone had different responses. We’re on a field, and one person’s playing hockey, someone’s playing basketball, someone’s playing lacrosse, and it’s like, no wonder we can’t win the game. Like, so we gotta be aligned. But that comes from that constant repetition of communication. But where are we going? Why does it matter? And what role did you play in that?
I think, honestly, like, this month, we have pulled together so many different pieces of us as people, how we bring that into our kind of who we are, how we do what we do. But then how do we then either leverage our title, hierarchical influence, or just our social people, who, for whatever of their own reasons, may choose to look to us for guidance or insight or experience, how do we show up in those ways? But then with that kind of either given or selected influence that we have, what do we do with that?
You know, how do we choose to do what we do in a way that is then going to be good for the people around us, those that are entrusted to our care, either by title or by choice? But then how do we do that in a way that leaves an impact that long sustains, like, well past, when we’ve stepped out, when our people have turned over, when just things change, how do we actually do what we do in a way that then it can actually just keep happening without us?
Like, that’s, to me, when I’m looking at sustainability, that’s gold, right? That it can sustain without me, that whatever has been built has been built collectively and that’s done in a holistic manner so that people can actually show up and be their true, genuine selves and do the thing that they’re there to do. Like, that is the kind of like this beautiful picture of this ideal world, right? But I think this month we’ve actually talked about a lot of different pieces that it’s not that scary. It’s big, it’s heavy work, right? It’s very intimate, and it’s very intentional, but it’s not super complicated.
It truly is just like, hey, you’re a human, I’m a human. We’re here to do the thing. Let’s figure it out together.
Yeah. I mean, the thought that you gave me is just, you know, the answer to that question is just simply, is culture. Like, that literally is the answer to how do I build a sustainable environment that lasts beyond me is culture, right? Like. And like, how that is the response. That is what I build. And I think we talked about it a few weeks ago. One of my favorite quotes lead to be forgotten, and you’ll always be remembered.
And it’s like, you know, a small, silly example. Not silly, but a small example is the lunar flag assembly. Have you ever heard that story of where that came from? So when NASA sends people up to the moon and they go to plant the flag, there’s no air in space. So how does the flag look like it’s flying in the air, right? Well, as they’re building this out, there’s a guy, what’s his name? Jack Kinsler.
And literally, he’s known as Mister Fix-It at NASA. So they call him up and they’re like, hey, Mister Fix-It. This is the problem we got. We want to wave the flag, but, you know, there’s no air to blow it. And he creates the lunar flag assembly, right? Which is a little tube that’s, you know, pushed through the hymns to kind of hold the flag up and make it look like it’s waving. But where did you get that idea? From his mom, hand hanging curtains as a kid.
That’s what gave him the idea of how NASA put their flag on the moon, right? It’s like, am I allowing these diverse perspectives, these things that you might think are so little and so small and like, who would think of this, right? But it’s like, it’s having a person like that at the table who can bring an experience from their own personal lives, you know, their lived experience to the table and say, hey, here’s an idea, I think it might work.
And then having people who say that is a good idea, I think it might work, too, right?
And let’s go try it. Let’s not be scared to fail, right? Having that culture built in, that lives well past us, where people see themselves being seen.
Yes. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for having all these conversations with me this month, for being willing to kind of put yourself out there and bring your experience and share the corners of the world that you get to play in. And just to have that conversation this month, I’m really, really grateful for this. Thank you.
Thank you.
