A Conversation about Navigating Change

Marla: I think initially, when Heather asked us again, we were kind of dumbfounded, like, okay, whoa. I've had a closure in my personal life, for sure, and, like, personal relationships, friendships, and family. But I think hearing Alex and even to myself, we've had many interactions when it comes to closure, good or bad, right?

And so it's not that I'm happy to hear, oh, Alex is going through this pain. Yay! But it's not. It's just that, like, we're not-

Alex:You get closure hearing that I don't have closure.

Marla:Like, you know, that we're not the only ones, right? That go through this. And, you know, many others go through that, too. And they don't. I mean, they don't teach you closure in grad school, Alex, right? They don't teach you what you're going to do when this comes. No one trained me on that. And so earlier, I kind of had to come up with my own definition of closure right after you had asked me, Heather. I'm like, wait, I don't even know, like, okay, I know, closure this, this blah, blah, blah.

So, yeah, I think. And you know what? And it's not that it's the sad part, but I think in the long term, we're going to continue to find ourselves in these types of situations. And so what are we doing now to prepare ourselves to the best that we can in the future? Because we work in a field where we're constantly going to be serving, serving, serving. What if one day just backfires or, like they up and leave or transitions. You know, things like that. So yeah.

And it's so interesting to listen to you two talk about this, though, because in education, there's a big focus on closure in may because our kids aren't coming back next year, right? Like, I was always lucky as a special ed teacher that I could have students across multiple grade levels. So I could have, you know, 6th grade, 7th grade, and 8th grade, or I could have 9th grade, 10th grade. Like, I could have the whole high school. I could have a whole caseload that was like three to four grade levels, right? Even kinder to three, right? Like, I could run multiple grade levels, so there was a stronger likelihood that my students would actually be coming back to me next year.

Still no promises, right? Like, some of them move or some of my guys were incarcerated. I've had students pass away, right? Like, there's all kinds of reasons that students, you know, are not coming back or not returning. But I was always lucky in the education space that I could have my students up to maybe two or three years. So it's wild to me to, like, reframe my thinking and go, man, like, what my norm was that I would work with a student for six years, right? Like, that is just, like, mind blowing, because in education, the focus is on one year.

You have one year to do all the things, and you have to meet all of these standards, and you have to make all of this progress and come hell or high water, that needs to happen. And if it doesn't happen, that's on you as a professional. Like, you didn't do your job, right? Like this whole, this whole experience, right? So May is kind of the did it work or not? Like, that is the, the end of the line for so many educators, especially anyone in general ed. Or if you work in a large district where your caseloads are just really large, so your departments are a lot bigger, and so you only have, like, I just have the freshman caseload, and then they move on to their next case manager, they move on to their next group of teachers. They move on, right? And it's just, have I done what I can do in that one year? So it's such an interesting reframing for me to hear, like, that depth of practice, because there's a whole lot of stuff that happens in one year. Like, my guys are coming in every single day, all day, right? Unless they're, you know, taken by another system that they're involved in.

You know, like, that's an all day, everyday thing. And so we're living five days out of any given week potentially with each other. And if not, then we're, you know, chatting and connecting and trying to do, like, virtual learning and all these other things. Like the depth of relationship that is built across just ten months is insane. Um, and so to take that and multiply that out across, you know, six years, to me, I'm just like, oh, my gosh, like, that is the, you know, if I get some random Facebook friend request from some old student or something, like, that's about as much as I get in that realm.

And that's happened to me, too, right? Like old students who are like, hey, look, I just had a baby. Or, hey, check out my new job I just got, or like, whatever, like, after they've moved on. But that's not the norm. There's nothing built for that. That is because of the rapport, because of the relationship. And that's, I think, Alex, a lot of what you were talking about is because of being the service provider that you are, because of that rapport that you have built with people.

They continue to provide information to you, and that is actually kind of what creates that closure for you because the system isn't going to do it, right? Like, services are over, they've moved, you know, it is what it is. Like, that's done, but it's because of that rapport and because of that relationship with people that kind of, like, continues through it. But I don't know. As I'm thinking about closure, I mean, it's all change, right? If there's no change, there's no reason to have closure.

Marla: I was going to say, too, that, like, I hear you talking, Heather, right? About students, like that. But, like, what about teachers? What about admins? What about leadership, right? Like, it's one thing about students. It's a different thing, too, like if teachers don't come back or, like there's been a change or shift in leadership, in admin. I've experienced that, too. So anyway, when you're kind of talking about that, I was just thinking like, yeah, that students are just one thing.

Just imagine, like, different colleagues, different people, different admin, all of those things which reality is like, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but that happens in the school settings constantly with different teachers, right?

So I mean, like, you're really speaking to, like, you and I do a lot of work in, like, OBM, organizational behavior management, and kind of that IO Psych, industrial organizational psychology, right? Like, that's what you're talking about. Like, you're talking about transition, change, and closure in the system, right? And so I think some of the stories that we started off this conversation with are those direct results of the system. If it's family systems or if it's insurance systems or whatever that system is that it may be situated in.

Marla:Sorry, I'm like, ew insurance.

Well, I mean, like, it's whoever those governing bodies are, they get to decide if we get to do what we want to do or not, right? Like, whatever we think is best practice. There are sometimes decisions that are made that don't allow us to do those things, which then means we are abruptly dealing with a change, which is then going to necessitate closure in some way, shape or form. But yeah, you're talking about closure at a systems level, and especially this time of year, there are lots of staff that are moving on to other things. They're choosing to leave the profession.

They're shifting hierarchies, right? They're going from a teacher to an administrator or an administrator to district or shifting districts altogether, right? Like, there's all kinds of, like, that staff shell game happens in May for sure. So now, as adults, we are dealing with our own closure and all our own workplace while we're trying to create closure for our students. Walking into summer, right? Like, all the layers of all of the things, for sure.

Marla:And then not to mention extended school year.

Oh, yeah.

Marla: Come back for summer school. They have subs. So I'm just thinking, like, yes, like, all of those things that we're trying to prepare for. And I know schools, they do the absolute best, but there's always something that's going to come that's going to prompt, you know, like, oh, man, did not get closure from that. So, you know, so as I was hearing you speak, I was like, I was just thinking even that, like, Heather, that's not even talking about, like, the other folks in the system. So, yeah.

Alex:And it's tough. I mean, I'm not sure what the education system is. Like in Indiana, Chicago. But here in Florida, I mean, it's. It's been tough. I mean, we've had a lot of, like, teachers just, you know, drop out completely, just given, like, what it's like to be a teacher. I mean, my girlfriend was a former teacher. She was a teacher for, I want to say, eight years, and the system just grinded her down and burnt her out to a point.

And, you know, it's. She used to do ESL and special needs kids as well, and just all in one class, and she had tough classes and no support. And it's been very… hearing her stories and just thinking about, from my perspective as someone that comes out externally to be part of the school system versus what she was doing. And it's just crazy. And I can understand why there is so much turnover. I mean, this year alone, one of my clients had four different teachers in one year.

And for a lot of our kids, they need that consistency, and it's like, you're throwing, in one year, four different teaching styles at one kid that was just starting to get used to teacher number one. And it was a lot. And it's very interesting because at this point, a lot of the parents and in that classroom, they're fed up with it. They're fed up with what's happened to their kids and the shifts in teaching styles and seeing their kids not excel and not meet those goals that the school has set out for them, meet their IEP goals, all of that.

It's very interesting. And it's also very hard, too, because mom tells me, hey, this is what's going on in school. And all I can do to help is, like, I could reach out to a teacher and set something up and. But I'm very limited in what I can do at that point because we're not in the school for him in particular. But for other kids I've worked with, it's been challenging. I had a client that changed schools three times in one year.

And he went from a really bad school to an okay school to an “eh” school. And, you know, we followed him all the way through.

And it was just seeing him in so many different settings and how much that affected him. I just saw so many new behaviors pop up because he just didn't know how to cope and he didn't know how to understand why he keeps moving, what's going on. And it was, to this day, he was the most challenging because I also felt that I wasn't equipped in a sense, like, they don't teach you how to help a kid transition between different schools in grad school either. There's no paper that you could look up on java that says, hey, this is how you do this. There's nothing. There's nothing out there.

Marla:I wish there was, but there isn't.

Alex:There isn't. I mean, maybe I should have done one because I had the experience. It was, it was tough. It was very tough to  just see him struggle. And on top of that, where he ended up wasn't even the best for him because with it all, like, just like Forrest Gump, “Life's like a box of chocolates.” Well, schools are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're going to get. You get a phenomenal school where teachers are with it. They want to do whatever they can.

And you get some schools where nobody cares. They're burnt out, they're tired. And like you said, May is the month where-

Marla: And understandably so, right?

Alex: Exactly like, okay, they're under supported, understaffed. Like, there's so many contributing factors, but even more so, like, May, you know, like you said, May is like, you know, the “whatever” month. It’s like, oh, June's next month. 

Marla:It is what it is.

Alex:Exactly. And I can speak on that from a personal level because I know when they came, my girlfriend was like, hands up in the air, like, counting down when June was hitting.

So it's tough. And given how many schools I've been in throughout my entire ABA career, it's very tough to find that one perfect spot that, like, you know that you, if you were to ever leave, you could find that closure. And I found that in a couple of schools, but there was one particular client that when we left that school and we left certain, like, we dc'd services with them, it hurts. It hurts. And, like, I, you know, I still, like, I still think about it. I'm worried that, you know, I hope he's okay because I know the classroom that he was in was not the best, and I know him finding services after us is going to be a challenge because there's a waitlist everywhere you go.

Even though there's a million different ABA clinics, I know he's going to have a hard time finding one that's perfect for him because he just has so many different little behaviors and quirks that not one right person. If you're not right, and if you don't show that warmth for him, it's. It's going to be tough. And, you know, that is something that I still am worried about and I don't have closure for, and I hope to get closure for it one day, but it does worry me, and I guess that's just because of how much we devote ourselves to our clients and to our families.

It's tough. And it's tough to try to not think about it too much and get stuck on it. And I think that's something Marla said that was really important. It's, you know, and my boss also mentioned this to me as well when he ended up leaving us was, you can't get stuck on it. You can't. You did all you could. You followed that kid to 20 different schools. You did what you did. You chased that family down to do parent trainings. You did teacher trainings. You did everything you possibly could to equip everyone with the tools needed to help him be as successful as possible.

So just take solace in that and you just got to move on, because if not, you get stuck in it, and then that just drags you down. I'm still trying to figure that part out. I'm still trying to figure out how to not let that go.

Marla:Let me know if you find it.

Yeah, well, I hate to land us here on the cliffhanger, but that is next week, so next week we are talking about unresolved endings. Anyway, so I think I'm going to let this be this week and we'll come back with great ideas. 

Marla:Next week sounds good.