Host: Heather Volchko
Guest: Chirs Zielinski and Claire Kijewski
So last week we were talking about just the big concept of self-care. And quite honestly, the conversation naturally led to why we don't do it. And so as we were talking amongst ourselves before we hit record this week, Chris and I were talking about how just there are so many obstacles getting in the way of choosing to actually care for ourselves so that we can care for others. And Claire, being fresh in, has like, here's the bullet point list of all the things that I want to try to fit into my career just right from the outset and the get-go. And Chris and I were both, like, singing her praises, so a little sneak peek into, like, behind the scenes of the conversation before we're recording this week.
So I just want to jump straight in and just. I mean, Chris, you and I kind of rattled off a heck of a list here, for there are so many reasons, so many directions of things that kind of get in the way. Sometimes it's our active choice, and sometimes it's the result of other choices, but there's just so many things that just get in the way of us actually caring for ourselves because we're so focused on caring for other people.
Chris:Absolutely. You know, and it's easy to get into that mindset. You go, you keep going. That motion creates emotion and momentum, and next thing you know, you're so far down the train tracks, you take a look around and you think, oh, my gosh, I've left the station, kind of off the planet now, so I need to make my way back.
But you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. And I think if we don't take an active role in this, nobody else is going to. We have to invest in ourselves, and we have to do, you know, all of that work because it matters to us and it matters to everybody else around us.
So I love hearing you say this now, right? Because you and I have worked together for years, and I think in both of our lives, there are moments where we've got some good balance. I don't know if there's ever real true balance or whatever, but, like, we've got some grind moments, and we've got some, know, pullback and pause moments. And it's sort of mixed in enough that it sort of feels healthy. And then there's also moments where it's just straight grind, and there is almost, like, not even an acknowledgment or recognition.
You know, maybe we're tired, we're exhausted, but, like, that's about it. But we don't necessarily feel like we have the margin to hit pause and make some other choices. So I'm wondering for you, like, what were some of those things that you noticed that kind of got you into, like, grind as norm, almost to the sense that, like, we're overlooking, you know, maybe not even feeling like we can make other choices.
Chris:Yeah. And so it's very true. You know, as a consultant, one of the things that I used to pride myself on is that I was a process specialist. I could go in, and I could process through, and I can keep chugging along and keep cranking along. And the amount of work and output I could do in such a short amount of time was it was, was it was what I was known for. For a lot of things. Go in and hammer out cases. Right. And rip off presentations and do trainings and working with a lot of people, and in some way-
Right. Like efficiency is king.
Chris: Yep. Absolutely. And it almost, at times, can feel euphoric and addictive. Where you're constantly doing this, and pretty soon it becomes that fabric of your being. You are constantly going and constantly working because there is never a short supply of work to be done in education.
Yeah.
Chris:And most people in education, I won't say every person, but most people in education are human service oriented, and they want to help their fellow human, little humans, big humans, all of them working in schools. And we become individuals that want to help. And that is what drives us. It's what feeds us, what motivates us. The late nights, knowing that if I do this one thing, it might make that monumental impact for this one child or this one administrator or this program, or it might help set policy that will stop something from ever happening again, or whatever it is. And all of that stuff is important.
The problem is when you look at the totality of all of those things piled up at one given moment, it's very easy to become overwhelmed. But if you pride yourself as being a process specialist, you're not allowing that mindset to creep in. That doubt or any of those pieces you will do, you'll go forward, you'll take it because you'll learn and you'll enjoy that learning, lifelong learning, right? Constantly going and grinding. And it's such an easy way, especially if you're motivated in this field, to drive forward and constantly be trying to find the places where you can be doing good, trying to help, trying to assist, trying to understand, trying to learn.
But all of that, it's all I. I am trying to learn, I am trying to assist. I am trying to. And life is collaborative. That's what it is. It's the other people around you. And where it becomes, it becomes difficult because, as a craft, it is a marathon and not a sprint. You will never in your life, and I truly believe this, you'll never master that craft. You will be going and learning and changing and adapting and evolving and scrubbing the things, right? It's that whole repetition and contrast. You're going to do those things that worked for you. And if they don't work in that context, then you're going to contrast and you're going to change and you're going to try something different, but you're constantly going, and it's so easy to get stuck in that mindset, that very linear path of output throughput and processing.
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We are in this space for others, but yet we put so much weight on ourselves.
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That's such a systems mindset. Where you're so focused on, you know, okay, what is the end result, the end product, and how is that going to happen? And how many pieces of that do I need to put in to make that the reality of it? And then that has that ripple impact of it affects all these other things. And then that means that the next thing is getting to kicked off. Like it's just this constant. But I think, I mean, for me, starting in the classroom, IEP dates are still on the calendar. It's not like I can say, you know what, I need a self-care day. And like, we just are out of compliance now, right? So like the dates are going to happen.
My students are showing up tomorrow, whether I am ready for them or not. Like, there are just things that, like, keep ticking, that I can't just pause and be like, you know what, I'm gonna go put myself back together and then I'm going to show up and I'm going to be okay for you. And that's where for me, coming from the teacher side of things, I mean, I know you're coming from like the psychologist side, but for me it was, I need to, I mean, very realistically, like, I need to manage a caseload of 69 students across four grade levels in three different self-contained classrooms across, like all these things. And it needs to happen, right? I need to have 26 preps, and that means I need to have 26 classes of different things ready to go for tomorrow, ready for go for this week, for this month. And then I need to track all the data, and I need to be able to, you know, show progress on goals, and I need to report to all the meetings because now I got a zillion of them because now they got all the re-evals and the manifestations and all the things, right?
So I need systems. Like I need to have systems. I need to know how to look at curriculum, and I need to find the efficiencies and the supplemental resources that then are like grab and go that I can fit in, that can match in with the IEP pieces. Like I have to have systems, or I could never possibly come anywhere close to what was being expected of me. But that's where I wonder, too. Like, there's this expectation piece and is expectations of, like, people that we're reporting to, is it of our colleagues? Is it of our families, of our students, of ourselves?
Right? And then now we're having to meet all of these expectations. Maybe some valid, maybe some maybe contrived, like, maybe they don't even exist. It's just kind of how we're perceiving things. And now all of a sudden, we've got this kind of perpetual rat race that we have now created for ourselves. But then, because you and I, systems people, we're going to have the processes, we're going to be super-efficient about it, and we're going to be high performers, and we're going to be like, we're going to have that solid output.
And then you get to this moment where you're like, holy smokes, what am I doing? And you kind of have that aha moment, and then it's the, oh, wow. Like, there's so many things stacked up here that are just truly cluttering my ability to see, honestly, kind of myself in the middle of all of those efficiencies and all of the things that need to get done.
Chris: And all of those things you said, the “I” will have it, and they'll carry it all the way to the end. And sometimes it can burn you down for it, too. It's collaborative, right? We are in this space for others, but yet we put so much weight on ourselves.
Claire: It doesn't really even seem like you guys are putting the weight onto yourselves, as, like, the weight has been already put on. And, like, it's just left onto you to now figure out what to do with, like, 65 kids, which doesn't really seem fair to put on to like one person anyway. So, like, that would freak me out and stress me out. And I don't really know how one person can really be expected to do that type of a job personally, because I feel like you would need just, like, more people. Because one IEP is 30 pages before 60 children is… That's a lot of math.
Chris: Yeah. And it speaks to the volume of the work that educators are doing on the scene, on the court, and behind the scenes, because that whole dialogue is but two individuals, and there are hundreds, thousands, if not millions that are doing that same thing, living that same life. And I know not one of my prouder moments right, but I remember having a consult case once, and I was working through this educator who is struggling, and I'm helping, and I'm collaborative, and I've got the entire team there.
And there was this moment at the end of the day, right where I happened to be in my car. And we must have taken. So at that point in time, I was working about an hour away from my house, and we happened to be at a light at the same time. And you know how you pull up to a red light? You look around and you kind of. Sometimes you see who's around me happened to be this educator, and she was in her car, and she was crying.
And the next day, I didn't have her on my rotation, but I made a point to go back, and one of the most just gut-wrenching questions that I had was, hey, you know, I had an opportunity to see you yesterday, and I don't know if you saw me or not. I was in the Honda Accord right next to you, and I noticed that you were crying. And I have to ask you two questions. Is everything okay?
And we had some discussion. And as we talked through that, the second question that I had was, hey, just out of curiosity, how many days is your drive home like that? Because she had disclosed in that conversation, amidst all these expectations and these stressors and all these things that are placed upon me, I found that the best way that I can work through this is to get a good cry out before I get home.
And it was like a gut punch, and it was. It took my breath away. And I asked her, she said, You know, it's maybe three to four days a week for the last 15 years, and it's what works for me. And it was in that moment that I realized this consult case really isn't about what was presented to me by administrators. There's something bigger that we need to look at for this. But that is one person. And I'm sure that there are countless educators that would hear that same thing and would, whether they want to disclose it or not, would say, I've been there, I've done that, you know, and that's self-care and resilience and relying on all of these skills and strategies. So it's where that comes in play. Recognizing limitations.
It truly kind of sounds like it's like almost despite what's going on around us, right, that it's not, oh, we, you know, we work in education, and we have super stressful jobs. And of course, all of these things come with the territory. This is just, you know, this is what you signed up for. You're an educator. So, therefore, we totally understand that you need to take care of yourself so that you can come in and take care of other people.
It's not that. It's not that we have skills. It's not that we have tools. It's not even that we are necessarily situated in a system that is kind of doing maybe much more than lip service. That's why, especially in COVID, I got so done with, like, self-care, self-care, self-care, because I'm like, okay, cool, that's great words. But, like, where's the actual time to do that?
Chris: Where's the actionable things?
How are we seeing the systems shift so that, you know, we can do these things? I mean, we're actually really lucky right now. We're working with a district that is intentionally taking time away over the summer, where they're not necessarily providing training; they are truly providing self-care opportunities for their staff. And that is counting for some of their professional development because it's like, we have been on the grind and burning since, like, four-ish years ago now, where the world stopped on a dime, and educators literally showed up the next week. We didn't have a choice.
They said, your students will be in school. You figure it out. So one week later, where everybody else is trying to figure out, like, what's a pandemic? What's going on? Educators are like, All right, I flipped my classroom. Now we have 15 different platforms, and we're going to use this video thing, and we're going to, you know, get into this person's living room and whatever and just make it work, and it just hasn't stopped.
So I love the fact that you're kind of acknowledging, like, yeah, that stress load. I mean, you said 15 years. You know, COVID was not 15 years ago, right? So, like, this is not a new status of education, but it did spike and escalate in the past few years, and it hasn't necessarily, like, dropped much. But that's also where we're seeing, you know, how do I choose to engage in self-care? I quit my job, right? Like, I leave education.
Like, there are lots of people that are making those decisions. And that's where we also look at, you know, there's vacancies everywhere, and so staff shortages, and then we've got massive class sizes, which is extra systemic stress added in to this whole, you know, crazy picture. So when we're looking at, you know, are we choosing to take care of ourselves? Well, some of it. There is just a lot of roadblocks in the system or in our workplace or in, you know, kind of how we're showing up.
That makes it just really stinking hard that you do end up in those moments where you're like, you know what? A good cry. And then I will be a good person for my family, and then I will, you know, sing my music, and I will take deep breaths, and I'll do what I need to do to get in the headspace, and I'll show up in the morning. Right. Like, not exactly. Maybe the most healthy options, right? But it's what fits into the time that we have and know, kind of like, whatever boundaries we have to live within.
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Everyone should be heard. Everyone should have the chance to be heard and respected.
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Claire:I also do feel like, when you get into a mindset like that is like, when you just have to keep doing the thing, is like, that's how you end up burning out is because you're just on autopilot at one point, and then you are watching a week go by and you're like, “hello?” What even happened in that week? Like, you literally are just doing the thing every single day.
Chris:And it becomes, if you think about it, you look at the school year, you look at the calendar, right? And everybody looks for those palatable moments. Like, okay, we're working hard, and then the year comes along, and then you hit your winter break, and people are like, okay, got some time off, right? But that's time. And distance isn't necessarily effective self-care, and it's not really assisting with that resilience.
But then you're like, all right, now I'm refreshed. Well, then you slog back in. In January, right? Because now you're like, gotta get back into it. And I'm ready to kick the tires and light the fires. And then you're like, spring break's here. All right, got another week. And then it's like this constant staccato choppiness. You got some time, and then you're out. And then if you think about it, if you look at the calendar, how back-end it is in school, it's, we're back in January. Well, then we got some days off in February, and then we're back in February is a short month. And then we're back in March. Oh, well, then we get a week off. Cause now it's spring break. And then we've got some time.
And then everyone's gotten the countdown clock. Oh, man. It's April. We only got a little bit more in 45 days, 20 days, ten days, two days. Right. We've survived, and then we've got the summer, and then we do it again. But Einstein had it right. Right? He said, “insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.” Are we insane? Right. I mean, I don't know. I love. I love education.
I love educators. It has been an amazing addition to my life. But I go back. I'll go back to the story, and I'll go back to what we were just talking about, that, like, resilience, right? And so one of the things I've always thought, and I'm no expert in this by any means, but I've always looked at it as the ability to bounce back from perceived failures or setbacks. And I'll always add the perceived in there because it's my perception, and the reality of the world is “my perception can't be wrong.”
If I pulled up next to that educator and her perception was that she struggled and failed and did a bad job that day because some lesson that she planned didn't go right, well, guess what? She can feel that way. Right? And if another educator perceives that they messed up an IEP, and he got to the meeting and it laid itself out on the table, and it was very clear and evident to him, well, guess what? He can feel that way, too.
And it's how we perceive that that adds to that stress, that anxiety, the perceptions. And so, how do we get back? How do we root back around to becoming individuals that focus on self-care, focus on building that resiliency, and managing some of our perceptions? Because in the reality of it is, we are our own harshest critics. I know that to be true in my own lab.
Absolutely. That's true for so many of us.
Claire:I feel like you could go by starting by, like, validating your own kind of feelings and then not only your own feelings but, like, validating other people's feelings, like listening to other people's considerations and then taking them in and navigating it through that way.
I love that, because so many times in education, we are expected to do that for everyone around us. It's really cool that you're saying, no, no, no. Like, you get to be part of that, too.
Claire:And everyone should be heard. Everyone should have the chance to be heard. Like, it doesn't matter how old or young you are. Like, everyone's word should be heard at some point and then, like, respected.
Chris:One of the things that is so important in education is if you listened to what, you know, Heather and I were talking about, and there were a lot of ‘I’s, and I said, the ‘I’s will have it, and they'll carry it all the way to the end. Right. Every educator, at some point, I'll throw another ‘I’ out there, but every educator feels like they're on their own island, right? And if there's ever a team sport, if there ever is a team sport that takes a village, it is education.
And I feel like what we kind of talked about previously, about when we're focusing on self-care and when we're working on ourselves, it not only is for the benefit of us but for everyone around us. And if you hear, a lot of times, the perception is, I need to I, I, I, I, I, in education, but we also have to have the courage to go to others, to seek out others. I know my life and the way I look at things would probably, the best predictor of future behaviors is past behavior.
I know I probably would have continued on the same path until I started talking with others and getting perspectives and hearing what they had to say and listening and letting them check my thoughts and ideas, you know? And, Claire, when you were talking about validating others and listening and being collaborative and having that bidirectionality, I think a lot of times that I think anybody would benefit from that, you know?
Claire:I feel like that's one of the things that I always had to, well, I always do have to take into consideration is, like, if I am feeling upset for a certain way, like, if I didn't get a good grade or something, like I have, like you were saying earlier, every right to be upset about that. Like, it's just perspective. And, you need to be patient with yourself and take that into consideration. Like, even if your feelings are a wave in a day, you can have 15 feelings in a day, you need to validate each of those feelings because each of those contributed to your day, no matter what. You know what I mean? But you can't get stuck in that loop of a feeling. You can be upset for a little bit, okay, that upset me. Now I've got to move on. You know, give yourself ten minutes to be upset, but then pick yourself back up, is how I've been trying.
I mean, how many times do we teach our students, right, today's new day? And part of that is us choosing to acknowledge, yeah. What it is is what it is. Cool. And we can try again. What you're saying is basically to do the exact same thing with ourselves.
Chris:Yeah. And it's hard because how do we navigate that? I think when you're in an environment where money and expectations come so heavy on the table, it seems like it's much more complicated. But it's interesting because I had somebody say this to me just recently in a conversation, and the administrator, getting ready to retire, said, You know, it took me 30 years in education to recognize that I really did learn most of what I needed to learn in kindergarten.
Right? Like, listen to my body, listen to others, talk to others, value them, work together as a team, be inquisitive and curious. All of these things. I think when we get into that professional mind space, sometimes we lose some of those things, or we just, I don't know, we forget them, or we don't apply them, or we-
They don't seem relevant, or we don't feel like we have permission to apply them. Like, there's all of these things. But I think, honestly, that is a perfect, I think, you know, I'm loving this conversation, and I don't want to just, like, cut it off. But next week, we are truly talking about how do we integrate this? So how do we have that professional experience and we have those workplace demands and the deadlines that aren't going to change, but then also have a life, have a life and be a person and, and have that show up simultaneously in some kind of an integrated manner that is really like us just getting to be a whole person in our own life.
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