A Conversation About...

A Conversation about Holistic Approaches to Work-Life Integration

Episode Description

This week, Heather is joined again by Chris and Claire to tackle one of the hardest questions in education and human services: how do you take care of yourself without dropping the ball for everyone else? From baby steps and “one thing at a time” wins, to the power of accountability partners, to learning unexpected self-care hacks from younger generations, this conversation is full of real talk about what it actually takes to find balance. Together, we explore what “holistic self-care” really means—physically, mentally, emotionally, socially—and how to integrate it into life when the demands never seem to let up.

Key Points and Takeaways

  • Self-care must be multifaceted, addressing physical, mental, emotional, and social needs.
  • Generating small victories and recognizing them can crucially aid in managing stress and creating positive reinforcement.
  • Having and being a non-adversarial based accountability partner can greatly assist in achieving personal growth and well-being.
  • Generational differences can lead to varied approaches to technology, stress, and boundaries, which can provide learning opportunities.
Podcast Guest

Christopher Zielinski, SSP, BCBA

Chris Zielinski is a school psychologist, behavior analyst, and school administrator specializing in public policy, special education, and program assessment and development. Throughout his career in public education, he has been a long-term substitute teacher, school psychologist, lead psychologist, behavior analyst, autism/behavior consultant, and assistant superintendent. Before transitioning to the field of education, Chris provided clinical behavioral health services and worked in corrections with state and federal inmates. Outside of his professional life, Chris enjoys spending time with his three amazing daughters and his motivated, intelligent, and supportive wife. Chris is a Board Certified Behavior Analyst with his Bachelor of Arts in Public Law and Criminal Justice, Bachelor of Science in Psychology, Specialist degree in School Psychology, and a Director of Special Education endorsement.
Podcast Guest

Claire Kijewski,
BS, RBT

Claire Kijewski is a behavior technician specializing in low-incidence student populations, autism spectrum disorders, targeted communication skills, structured social interactions, and collaborative teaming. She has worked closely with a variety of multidisciplinary teams in clinic settings where she established rapport with her clients and their families. Outside of her professional work, she enjoys reading, journaling, and watching her favorite comfort tv shows, and golfing in the summer. Claire is a Registered Behavior Technician with her Bachelors in Applied Behavior Analysis minoring in Human Psychology + Development and Early Childhood Youth + Family Studies, and is currently pursuing her Masters in Applied Behavior Analysis.
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Host: Heather Volchko

Guest: Chirs Zielinski and Claire Kijewski

So far this month, we talked about self-care and kind of that big concept. We also talked about all of the many reasons that it is incredibly difficult to find the time, make the time to actually choose self-care. So this week, we are trying to pull both of them together. They that, yes, there are lots of demands. All the things we talked about last week with all of our workplace expectations and all the things.

And, yes, there's this aspect of self-care in so many different ways that we can choose to actually care for ourselves. The goal of this week is to try to pull those things together. And offline, before we were recording, Chris and I were having the aha. Moment of man, like, having a bit of a longer career. There's just a lot of obstacles. There's a lot of things that kind of come up and get in the way.

So I'm super excited to see where Claire jumps in and really sets us right this week to really have that focus, just truly even going into our careers, even though we're a few years in, to be able to reset and say, No, actually, it is a both-and. It's not a one then the other or a one or the other. It's a both-and all the time, and what that looks like. So I'm super curious, Claire. I'm just gonna toss this straight to you right from the beginning.

When we're talking, like, holistic approaches, what does that look like? Like, clue us in because Chris and I need to learn.

Claire:So what kind of comes to mind right off the bat is, like, a physical well-being. So, like, making sure that you are sleeping enough, making sure that you are eating enough, or even, like, getting the appropriate diet. And I know that kind of sounds silly, and not everyone in the world kind of knows what an appropriate diet is, but, like, just eating things that, like, make your body feel, like, full or healthy. You know what I mean? Like, my opinion’s always been, like, you can eat a piece of cake every day if you wanted to. It's just, like, portions. You know what I mean? Like, you can allow yourself, like, some slack or some fun items and then, like, your mental and emotional well-being as well, too. So, like, if you are recognizing that, like, hey, I am just not getting better. Like, it'been a couple of months now, and I am still feeling stuff, like, reaching out for help. Like, and I know that that's very, very hard to do, but, like, getting on the phone and dialing a psychiatrist or trying to Google some therapy people around you, therapists, that's who they are.

Just getting connected and informed in, like, your own personal way and then social connections, too. Like, as much as sometimes we forget about it in the work kind of field, like, being able to connect with the people who support you, who make you feel good, and, like, give you a sense of purpose. I know that sounds kind of silly, also that your friends give you a sense of purpose, but, like, they kind of do in a sense, as long as you can be giving them equally as good back.

No, absolutely. I mean, I love the many angles that you're all hitting because I know for me, sometimes I wanna be around people, and I know that's kind of like one of my burnout checks is I have some of my favorite people come over to our house on Friday nights, and if I cannot, you know, turn off my computer and walk out of, you know, like, the office space that I do all, like, all my day stuff in and be present and be excited that they're there and still have something left over for them. Like, I've pushed too hard this week, but then there are other times where I'm like, there are certain people that I'm like, oh, they're just so draining.

Like, to me, that's not self-care. That's more work. Right. And that's also, like, for a purpose. And, you know, something that I wouldn't not do. Like, I absolutely love it, but it just shows up differently. So I love how you're going. Like, there's physical things, there's mental things, there's emotional things, there's social things, right? But not all of them are going to be all-fueling all the time, but they all do have a place in just different ways at different times.

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Connect with the people who support you, who make you feel good.

claire kijewski

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Claire: No, I definitely agree with that. And another thing, just, like, adding off of, like, social connections as well. Like, I know from, like, growth and experience, like, after graduating college and then moving back to my hometown, when I moved back to my hometown, not all of my friends did. So now I'm living a hometown with maybe one or two of, like, my closest friends, everyone else that I have ever hung out with, respected, they were like, my go-tos gone hours away. So now I have to make plans with them months in advance or, like, pick one weekend and, like, that makes me look forward to seeing them. But also, like, I miss them sometimes, but then now I get to see them for, like, positive, long weekends, you know what I mean? Instead of, like, every single day. Like, my time with them is more valuable now.

That's really neat. I mean, one of the things that I just absolutely respect and. And admire of you is even in just, like, a short few years, you know, really launching into your career, like, you have balanced some incredibly weighty things. And so I know, like, offline, we were kind of like, oh, we haven't worked as long. I don't work in education.

But, like, truly, like, you have and are continuing to just kind of walk through really heavy things and doing it with such grace and such, I don't know, like, not, like, stability, but just, like, this pure. Like, I've got this, and I'm going for, and that doesn't mean that every day is beautiful and perfect and everything is all together, but you are carrying a lot of heavy things and at the same time, having time for friends and being able to, like, take care of yourself and other people around you, and you're finding some of that work-life balance. And truly, like, even just meeting you as part of TLC and hearing part of your story there, like it is, you actively choosing a holistic life, as opposed to the story that Chris and I shared last week of how our work just completely took over.

And it was kind of the. Oh, right, there could be both. So I'm just absolutely in awe of you, and you are incredibly, like, grown up. You know, I aspire to be you when I grow up, type of view of having a job and how that plays as part of just also having a life, and that they can both coexist.

Claire: I really appreciate you saying all of that. You're, like, really lifting me up right now.

That's the truth, girl.

Chris: It is. It really is the truth. Because just like what Heather was saying, it is easy to get that tunnel vision to really be focusing on that one sector that, you know, you excel in, right. And then just keep going forward and losing touch with a lot of things. And I really like it when you were talking about kind of, like, what that holistic approach kind of entails. And it was more than the physical away, right away, everybody goes to the physical, right? That's the number one thing. Or the mental. But you also have to think about your spiritual health and your emotional health, even your financial well-being.

Right. That's part of that balance that you have to seek out. Because if we neglect any of those areas, whether it's neglecting ourselves financially or neglecting ourselves socially or neglecting ourselves emotionally or physically, it puts more stress on that table. And I don't know about you, but I know that we already have enough stress in our lives. It's how we manage it and how we persevere for a lot of these things.

And how do we set those limitations so that stress isn't overwhelmingly, debilitatingly, right?

Because that creates those blinders, right? Like, we are in it, in the grind, and then all of a sudden, the stress has crept in, and now we've got business as usual. And this is just what life is, and this is just know how this will be as opposed to pausing, pick our head up, look around, reconsider, do that self-assessment, figure out where we're at, what do we need, what do we want to shift? How do we shift that right? And I fully understand, I say this acknowledging that that is a luxury, to be able to have a pause, moment and step away where you don't have someone who needs something and you're not just so dog tired done that you can actually put some true, thoughtful, mindful, just energy into doing that little bit of a self-assessment to figure out where we're at. I mean, I have lots of friends that are stretched way too thin in all aspects of life.

And even to just listen to a conversation like this, be like, that sounds great, but how does that actually happen when everybody is stretched so thin? And that's where, Claire, quite honestly, like, you are just so naturally introspective. I'm curious, like, do you have tips or hints? Like, how do you find the moment to just, like, you know what? I'm going to recalibrate my life here for a second, or, like, I'm feeling kind of pulled this way, and here's how I can, you know, fix that. And amongst, like, the true, genuine stressors that are happening, it's very real.

Claire: Um, well, one thing for me, I know this might kind of sound silly, but, like, if I know that I'm gonna go into a really stressful workday, I'm getting myself the biggest Starbucks coffee, like, my go-to drink in preparation for my day. Like, I want, like, the one thing that's gonna make me happier to, like, make my day better. And I know that's, like everyone says, you shouldn't be buying coffee every single day and stuff like that, but if I want to buy a coffee every single day, I'm gonna buy, if that's gonna add to my day and make my day more successful, I'm gonna buy that coffee for myself, because that's my reward to, like, get through what I need to do to then be done with the job and go, you know what I mean?

Chris: I love how everybody was talking before about all the little checks that they do, the litmus tests that they have to see where they're at in this. Heather, you know, you mentioned kind of using that social aspect to determine where you're at in relation. And for me, it. It was always two things. My phone and the people around me. And if I look on my phone and I'm constantly checking it, constantly sending emails, can't it wait till tomorrow?

Does it have to be right now? Is Rome burning? Do I need to do these things? And that's just one thing for that life balance, right? Being able to turn off something and giving yourself the permission and acceptance to do it and see it through. How do you? And I guess I would pose this question out to both of you. How do you see people starting that process? When you feel you're on the hamster wheel, when you feel you're in the thick of it, and you feel all these expectations are coming from all these different angles, coming from yourself, coming from your students, from the environment you work in, how do you hit that pause button and still be productive? How do you find time for yourself in a world that feels overwhelmingly chaotic at times?

Claire: I tried to break it down by, like, one step at a time. So, like, if I have a million things going on in my head, I am not thinking about the 15 million things. I'm thinking about one thing that I could do. And if I do like it for five minutes, I did a good job. Or if I did it for ten minutes, great job. And I'm giving myself, like, encouragement, like, okay, I've done that. Good job. Positive reinforcement.
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Notice those small pieces. Acknowledge 'I am not where I want to be in life' and notice the small wins as you're making progress in that direction.

Heather volchko

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It's those small things that, over time, can accumulate into bigger things. I think we're really good at noticing that in other people, and maybe not always as good at noticing those things because we're just not at the goal yet, that we don't see those incremental pieces along the way. A good friend of ours who has felt kind of trapped in their workplace and sort of in their career, and so often the conversation always just turns into, Why, like, why are you stuck? Why is this the end? Why is it always going to be this way? Why is there no way out?

And it comes down to some of those smaller pieces that either aren't noticed as actually being small, or when you put them all together, it seems so stinking big that it's just insurmountable. And so you can't even find those smaller pieces along the way. So I love the way that you're saying, like, notice those small pieces. And if it's just noticing the small wins as you're making progress in that direction, or even just breaking down, like acknowledging, I am not where I want to be in life, so I want to be somewhere else, or I want something to shift, or something to be different.

What are some of those things that, you know, that I would actively need to do to even just start the shift, and then those become those little things, and the little thing adds up and adds up and adds up over time, and then all of a sudden you've even got just small shifts that are different. But I think that truly is having that aha moment of, wait, where am I? How did I get here? And I do not want to be here. How do I get out of here?

But it's having that moment. And I think that moment hits different people differently. I think some people are very attuned to it, and so they'll notice those smaller shifts, and then they'll be able to course correct a little quicker. Other people get well down, and then they were like, oh, whoa, how did I get here? Right? And then it's this, you know, it's either a bigger lift or a different kind of lift to have that incremental shift, at least just moving back in the direction that we would want to. I think it looks different.

Chris:Yeah. And one of the things that I found pretty helpful for me, at least, is building in those non-adversarial-based accountability partners. So if you're going to do something in that process to better yourself, whatever realm you're going to look at it, how do you build that in to having somebody that can be your motivator, can be your cheerleader, but also can be that person to help when you need someone to say, hey, you know what you haven't done today? Hey, let's go take a walk.

Let's go do this. Let's go do that. Because it takes a village in so many aspects of our life, and I think that good communication on whether it's a fellow teacher or whether it's an administrator, right. I've had administrators tell me, Hey, this weekend, don't do any work. Right. It sounds crazy to say it, but it's true. And I've heard people in administrative meetings been in the room where they said, Okay, this weekend we're not doing, it's like it's a scheduled plan.

But to get to that point, I mean, the trains are already off the track, right? It's your coworkers that are making a pact together not to be doing work. Right. But there are other people in our lives that if we communicate these things that we're working on or we're really focusing on, we're recognizing shortcomings in ourselves or things that we can build on, bring them in together, it's easier. And I've always said, if you're working with a student, there's three ways you can get from point A to point B. You can be behind that student, pushing them along, and that's going to get resentful. You can be in front of them, pulling them along.

Yeah, you're going to get to that point. There's going to be some resentment. There's going to be some hurt feelings. Or you can get to a point where you're collaborative and you walk side by side. And I think, for me, what has helped me in this is trying to find that balance and incorporating others into that litmus test that I use. And I appreciate that both of you are doing similar things, right? Because it's so hard oftentimes. It's the I’s. We have to work on it. I have to work on myself. You recognize your own faults, right? We’re our own biggest critics.

But sometimes you need an outside perspective, too, right?

Claire:One thing about the outside support. So, like, whether that be your partner, whether that be your best friend, like, as long as you have, like, one person you can rely on, I think that makes it easier for individuals to kind of, like, recognize the support they're kind of getting. But for not everyone has that one person. So I feel like kind of there is where we need to be more, like, willing to be more of a support for others as well.

Or like advocates, or like just teach everyone to be nicer and more accepting. So, like, then not one person has to be, like, the rely on support for one person every single time, if that makes sense.

Chris:For sure. I mean, in sharing those personal experiences, I think having the benefit, and I know on a previous podcast, Heather and Matt had an opportunity to talk about being in a building where you have and a career where you have five different generations, right, working within the same field at the same time. And I think building that in is great because you've got five different generations of experience. I've learned as much from the success of others as from the failures as well.

And sometimes there is no, there's no replacement for time and experience, you know, and having those collaborative talks, those conversations with those around you, I mean, it's. You're in a service field. Everybody's there to serve one way or the other. Service-based profession, we can do that with our peers as well. 

Well, but you're talking about learning from each other, right? I think it was maybe the first week this month or so that you were talking about lifelong learners. Right. It's kind of a cornerstone of education, but this also includes these things. And, I mean, I think of, you know, I get the chance to hang out with some younger folks on a pretty regular basis, and I have learned so many things from them, not just in, like, the new hip lingo or making me not sound as old, but, like, truly these, like, the generations behind us have grown up with technology in ways that I didn't. And I'm kind of in that middle generation where I didn't grow up with it fully integrated everywhere, but it was still pretty prevalent. And both my parents are programmers, so we had computers. Right. So there is an aspect of.

It's familiar to me, but it's not integrated in my day-to-day in the way that it is in the generations that are coming up now. And quite honestly, watching some of the younger generations have amazing boundaries with this group chat is blowing up. I'm muting them. I'll do with that later. Right. Just automatically, where someone in, maybe my generation or an older generation, would be like, oh, my gosh, there's so many you notifications. I can't keep up with it and, like, being stressed out by it. Or I've seen people just straight up leave group chats because it's like that. I cannot handle the level of notification here, but just seeing how different generations navigate different stressors and how they then have adapted to have boundaries in different aspects, which truly just protect them.

It's kind of an aspect of just caring for themselves so that then we can, you go back and engage in the group or, you know, go about doing whatever we're doing. But that is not something that is maybe kind of built into every generation. It's something that I got to learn because I was with people from a different generation that just had different skills because they've kind of grown up differently.

Claire:That's one thing that makes me excited about the generations to come, is I really think we're gonna get some, like, really good youngers. It's gonna be good. I feel good things coming.

Chris:Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Not only that, but think about it this way, right? So I'll tell you a quick, brief little quick story. I was talking with a kid, and, you know, like, anything else, relationships, right? And so he was talking to me, telling me about all the challenges and all the things, and he pulled out his phone, and he says, Man, but this helps me. And in my mind, I'm like, oh, okay, cell phone, YouTube, all these other things, like hitting the ‘gram or something like that.

And he pulls out in his phone and he takes to this VA app. Now, this is a student, this is a high school student, and I recognize the icon right away. I have it on my phone, right? And I'm like, where's this gonna go? Curious where this conversation’s gonna go, right? And he goes in and he's like, look at this mindful stuff. This is amazing. I just take a break here, and I just zen out on it, and I'm like, is this?

Do your friends know about this? Have you ever seen this? Like, yeah, a couple of my friends showed me. And I'm like, where has this been for so long? Right? I was introduced to it, and I've been poking around on it, but it's just an example of using technology in a different way that people can go on. And there's all these tools and resources that are there at your disposal these days that 20 years ago. Good luck. I mean, it was, it was not. And that comes by way of technology. It comes by way of a youthful drive, a lot of different things bringing it in.

And if you turn to my parents, like, generation above me, they would never have thought of the resource of using an app to try and engage in mindful practices or even ACT, right? practices that are just there and known to be pretty darn effective at your fingertips. Right? And I say, this is as I'm aging with children. Right?

You're the old guy in the room already.

Chris:I know. I have become the old guy in the room, which is okay; I'll play that card. I'll ride that wagon.

Oh, gosh. Well, I love that. I think this conversation has totally acknowledged that different people, different seasons, different needs, different skills, different methods, there are so many differences. And that, that's kind of a beautiful thing. And that if we're doing this in community, and we are, you know, choosing to kind of engage other people in our own pursuit of, you know, “having a life” or “staying sane.”

But if we're doing that in community, that means that we're going to bump shoulders against other people, which means we're maybe gonna catch some stuff that we might not have considered especially if we're interacting with folks outside of our generation or outside of our own workplace norms to see what other options may exist out there. And then, oh, that's an aha moment for that self-reflection to maybe create some of those baby steps to see where we can go from there.

So, what a super cool conversation this week. I'm excited to see where we go next week when we close out the month.

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