For this high-leverage practice today, we are talking about providing scaffolded supports. I've got Mary back with me again, and we're talking about this from the lens of a building leader. So I know part of this conversation we can go into specific strategies and all the content and kind of what can we actually do tangibly. But this one, we're going to step a little bit back from that and say, how do we even learn those skills? Where do they come from? And then how can I then apply those in my practice?

So, Mary, as we are talking about scaffolded supports for you and your context with your educators, what does that look like?

Yeah. So I'm in a unique position where I have content teachers in my building, and we're constantly talking about how to meet the needs of our diverse population of students. And let me tell you, they're everywhere, right? We have students who are exceeding, we have students who maybe a couple grades behind. I'm starting to really learn that just thinking about literacy itself, we kind of think about what are some ways that we are intentionally working on improving literacy skills at the high school, at the secondary level? Because we're no longer teaching students how to read.

We're teaching students how to think about what they're reading, right? And writing. And that's an area I feel like even when I went to school, when I received my master's in learning behavior specialist, I'm actually supposed to be highly qualified to teach reading. But I never took a reading class, right? So I often think about what kind of professional development my teachers need in order to meet the needs of the students in their content area.

And then we think about self-contained teachers who teach all subjects. What kind of professional development do they need in order to continue to grow their instructional skills in an ever-changing classroom dynamic where you're constantly getting new students? That's something that I've been kind of grappling with even in my own professional career.

Yeah, I am so thankful that you are noting that you can be a content teacher and have incredibly divergent learning styles. And even just like the splintered learning pieces that have happened over time, by the time you get to secondary, a lot of times we're talking scaffolding in the elementary, and how are we closing those more basic learning gaps. Well, then when you get into secondary, now not only do you have the pre existing basic learning gaps, now you've also got all of those critical thinking gaps, and you can't even… like some of those skills don't even show up well when we've got some of those basic gaps and then, like, which gap are we filling at the moment and how are we helping our kids show up in the way that they need to to kind of be that whole learner like that, not just making progress on metrics and those kinds of things, but how can they actually engage in their learning in a way that then they are learning and they can even see their own learning, but there's so many different strategies that go into that. So I love that you're kind of noting that, hey, like, you can be a content teacher at secondary, and we can talk about, you know, we can scaffold literacy. Sure.

How do we help students learn how to read? Like, I've definitely done basic phonics with upperclassmen, so, you know, those are skills to learn. But how do we do this in a meaningful way from a content teacher's perspective, not just a specialist perspective? And I'm super thankful that you noted self contained, too. I've lived that life, and there are so many different subjects that no one will ever be an expert in all of them.

Yet somehow we have to come up with ways to help all of these divergent learners all at the same time, and in my case, across multiple different grade levels simultaneously to be able to make progress in those ways. And you're right, it is an art which I don't think I fully recognized until I stepped into roles of coaching others to do what I had been doing and realized, like, oh, man, like, yeah, you need to know your resourcing. You need to have some background in some of these other areas. You need to have some collaborative inroads built with some folks around you. Like, there's all these pieces that make scaffolding possible when you've got so many things either from your learners or just from your instructional load kind of stacked against you in essence.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, when you talk about collaborating, let's say, I think that when I was teaching in a self-contained classroom, I became very fluent in reading neuropsych evaluations. And those evaluations truly have valuable information for teachers on how that student learns best. So you're talking about scaffolding lessons and scaffolding so that you're not making it too easy for the student, but then using those strategies that are included in the neuropsych evals, all those strategies to help that student learn best, right? That's definitely…- I always felt like that was like gold. That was like valuable information that was going to help me reach that student and design the lesson to meet the needs of every single student in that class.

Otherwise, we're talking about that student really struggling and not really being independent of their learning, right? I really don't know what kind of training there is around understanding neuropsych evals. And I really do hope that teachers take the time to talk to their school psychs or principals or whoever or LEAs to kind of dive deep into that information so that when you're designing your lessons, that's crucial to have.

It's like a recipe prior to designing your dishes, right? So I found that that was always helpful when I was a teacher as well.

Yeah, it's so uncommon. I know last time you were on the podcast, we talked about how to hold those effective meetings. And sometimes I've been in meetings where the outside eval is sort of tossed aside as “well, it's only a recommendation, we don't have to honor it” or like, “oh, that's not how our setting is. They don't understand what we do.” And they’re dismissed in these ways. It's like, okay, cool, so maybe their recommendations aren't going to be a perfect fit because they're coming from a different context or they're seeing education in a different way. But there's definitely things in here that can be highly useful.

But I know I've been leveraged as translator for some of it, too. I've been in meetings where we've got experts in their field that haven't necessarily worked in education, and then they're using certain words, and the educators are like, what are they talking about? Like, well, this is the education word for that. And they're like, oh, we do that. Here's what that looks like. And it turns this conversation from really being contentious.

nd all we're doing is we're trying to find what works for this kid and how can this kid be successful. It shifts it from being contentious into collaborative. Now, all of a sudden, we're speaking the same language and we're actually talking about the same supports. We're actually talking about how we can support a kid very similarly. But we were just using different language and we didn't even know.

Yeah, and then think about it in the flip side. If a general ed teacher is listening to some of these conversations and they're not aware of all of the acronyms and the terms, right? So that collaboration piece is super important, especially if you're co teaching or whether you're a resource teacher or co teacher, I think that's super valuable.

Well, because if we're scaffolding what we're doing, the likelihood that we are accomplishing all of this by ourselves is not possible. There are too many things. There are too many needs. I mean, I know for me, I would always get really good about using supplemental resources or different other products that different publishers are putting out that are already aligned with kind of the approved curriculum that I had to use.

But a lot of times that meant I was digging through back storage rooms or the oldest teacher in the content area had it tucked away in some back closet or something like that, right? Just digging through to find what exists and then opening up those conversations with people that are going, wait, what are you looking for? Why does that…- I didn't even know that existed. That's a thing?

And then that opened up other conversations where gen ed folks started using some resources that they just didn't even know were a thing. But it's that both/and. You got to know what you're looking for, but then you have to be able to collaborate with other folks because there's no way that we can meet all of the needs that are showing up in our classrooms. And that's true in gen ed at this point, not just in special ed or self contained, then you end up with even bigger or wider splinters that you're trying to serve all at the same time.

No, no, absolutely. I think the perfect marriage really is when it comes- like co teaching. I love the co teaching model because it allows the gen ed teacher to really learn so much from the special ed teacher. And then ultimately, I think the gen ed teachers become so great at their craft that they're already designing their lessons and structuring their scaffolding so that it meets the needs of any student regardless of an IEP.

Because let's face it, some students may have an IEP identified disability, but other students have different learning needs, too. And I really do love that co teaching model because both people are learning like special ed teachers learning the content, and then the gen ed teacher is learning strategies.

Yeah, but I mean, I think that even hearkens back to the conversation we had in the last episode as well, where there takes a certain level of humility to be able to walk into each other's spaces and own what we own and allow the other person to own what they own as well. I mean, I'm a strong advocate. I've sat down with C&I, like, curriculum and instruction leaders and said, hey, look, my background is from special ed, so I can get my students to learn, but I need you to tell me what they need to learn. Can you set out that scope and sequence? Can you get me that content pacing? And I'm gonna try my darndest to get them through the pacing, but I'm gonna use different strategies to be able to get them through that learning.

And that's the beauty of the co teaching model that you're talking about. But so often we see special educators enter gen ed spaces and get squashed, right? This is my space, my territory, my domain. And then all of a sudden, that beautiful partnership that could be so effective on both fronts just doesn't have that opportunity. How do you manage that with your people? How do you help them collaborate in just such more natural ways as opposed to kind of letting that power play of whose space we're standing in or kind of who has what right in different contexts.

Yeah. There is no ego when it comes to thinking about learning or using thinking to learn, right? We all have the same goals. I just actually just got back from a visible learning conference in San Diego, and we talked a lot about stretching our students' cognitive minds to be able to think more critically, right? If we apply that to all of our lessons and all of our learning, really, like, you're differentiating right there.

So it really, again, it really depends on what the goal is for the two teachers. But, yeah, relationships matter. People have to have a common understanding that the goal is to help students. And hopefully, the culture that they build is the culture that they're going to build for the students as well. And that's a culture for learning and not for who's right and who's wrong.

I've learned that it's pretty rare for any two adults to work collectively and in unison all the time. And as we know, teaching is a very busy profession. We have a lot on our plates. So really taking that time to be able to connect and reconnect and kind of recalibrate, right? And then that really, like, that expectation also comes from the building principal or whoever is leading that, those group of teachers, is that that's also something that they practice because I think it's really important to be able to like what you're doing, right?

And if you are uncomfortable at work, then you're not going to want to go to work. And we all need to go to school. We all need to work in schools to make sure our kids are learning, so it's super important.

Well, thank you so much. I know this isn't the conversation of all the tips and tricks and strategies and all the things, but quite honestly, this is more important. This is the bigger picture that if we don't have these things in place, then it really doesn't matter what strategies we're using. So thank you for bringing that part of the conversation to this high leverage practice. I could not be more thankful.

Thanks!