For this HLP, we are talking about providing intensive instruction. Now this is a massive topic with lots of moving pieces to actually do this. So that is not what this part of the conversation is. Today, I've got Manny with me. He does a lot of work in self-contained spaces. If it's therapeutic or just self contained within your publics or even alternative placements, there's all kinds of different, more intensive style programming that Manny has done some support with.

So I'm excited to hear his perspective on how this shows up in those spaces and places that he's been able to leverage his support. So, Manny, for you, when you're looking at intensive instruction, what is that for you?

Whenever I've read this HLP or have had to reference this HLP, what comes to mind for me is the tailored support. It's giving kids intensive instruction, like zeroing in on a kid who's struggling with math or a group of kids who are struggling with the same form of math. It's zooming in rather than giving that one-size-fits-all approach to everyone, especially working in classrooms with special needs students who are there for a reason, they have behavioral problems or they have learning difficulties or whatever. I think part of the issue is staff see students and their collective students, and we forget that these kids are in some of these programs for different reasons. Like, one can't read very well, one can process numbers in their head, but because they are collectively thought of as students, we forget those things and “all right, well, you should be able to do this” or, “you're in fifth grade now, you should be able to do that” or whatever that case may be.

So I've always seen this HLP, providing intensive instruction, as giving extra zoomed in help to students who are struggling with their schoolwork, with their emotional outbursts, with their behavioral challenges, et cetera. It's not more of the same. It's specified and targeted to what each individual student needs.

Yeah, that's exactly- when you're talking about that, the word that kept coming into mind was just individualized. That we have to see exactly where they're at, what they're needing and then the aspect of instruction that makes it intensive is that we are diving into those things. And that's more than just running some baseline tests and seeing like where they're at and then grouping them to small groups. Although, yes, that's a part of it.

It's truly looking at that student as an individual and looking, I mean, even, like what you were saying with academic, the social, the behavioral, there's all these different facets, where are they at? And then upping that intensity, which in order to be more intensive in our instruction, we have to individualize it because we're actually meeting that specific need. So it truly is both/and. I know it's not maybe explicitly called out in this high-leverage practice that it's individualized, but it is somewhat assumed that we can't be more intensive if we're not simultaneously then also being more individualized about it.

With those customizations that we do, like, again, I'm not- having been a gen ed student myself, right? There was no customization. The most you got was, “Hey, my dog died. Can I turn this in a day late?” “Yeah, sure, whatever.” But, like, I've worked with students who struggle with their math, and the whole group is doing it one way, but the student’s really struggling. “Okay, cool. Yeah, you're in 6th grade. You might feel a bit weird here for a second, but let's draw some telemarks, let's use some counters. Let's use whatever we have available to make this easy for you.

Understanding that your classmates may know it a different way, but let's learn in a different way because we all learn things differently and it's not something to be ashamed of.” And I feel like when students are treated as a whole, the individual parts of them can feel like a thing to be ashamed of. And I don't think teachers see that as often because, especially kids nowadays, bottle that stuff up and move on with life.

Well, so let's talk about like, what is this, right? We're kind of dancing around it a little bit. So let's get specific. Intensive instruction, what is it? We've seen the kid, we're individualizing it. We're trying to meet their needs. What are some of those specific strategies, moves? What is intensive instruction or what makes it intensive?

I've seen it as everything from like-... We talked a little about small groups, you mentioned small groups earlier. You got a bunch of kids struggling with this one thing? Bring them all here, away from the lesson. Let's all work on this together. You got one kid in particular, and if you got an aide in the classroom or if I'm in the classroom and the kid is struggling? Yeah, I'll gladly take them and help them catch up.

But, like, I've seen that done even as the teacher walk around. [The teacher] walks around the desk and is just like, “Hey, how are you doing? You okay?” Or during independent work, “Can everyone understand this? If not, here's some alternative ways that we can.” It's not super zoomed in on a particular student, but it's just providing those alternative ways, customizable ways, that allows a student to teach them.

I mean, a couple of weeks ago, I think maybe three or four weeks ago, Alexander and I were having a conversation around explicit instruction. And that is kind of all the mechanical elements of situating ourselves to be able to provide a more intensive instruction to our students. Explicit instruction is one form that is highly researched, very well-backed, tons of support, showing that it really does work.

And in that conversation with him, you can go back and listen to it, but that one was- he was basically saying that there's kind of a divided camp. Some people are all for it and see the learning progress that comes out of it. And I kind of spoke to that as a special educator because it was always my goal to close those learning gaps. And he was speaking at it from the general education teacher, and it kind of cramps his instructional style. And so some of his profs in academia weren't necessarily fans of it. It's just, you got to know it, but don't really rely on it or use it a lot. That's not really for you.

And so I think within intensive instruction, there are things like explicit teaching. There are serious ways to kind of dive in and make it happen, but it's that level of intensity that is kind of what you're talking about. So if it's not working for everybody now, we're going to pull that small group, and then if that's not working, then we're going to layer in some more support. So we're going to try it in a different way.

Like you had said, instead of just running the way the whole group is running, I'm going to try counters or tallies. There are these other pieces, but regardless of what strategy, I mean, it's the outcome we're shooting for. Are they learning? And if they haven't been learning well, then we need to up our game, and that provides that intensity because really the goal is just, we're probably doing more for them than we're doing for other people, and they're learning from it. If we're just doing a bunch of stuff and they're not learning well, then they were not really providing intensive instruction. What are they actually getting out of this?

Even going to the closing the learning gaps aspect of it. I had one student struggling with math because they were behind on some of their learning compared to their peers. I worked with the kiddo, and as soon as I got them started, I'd come back and like, “Hey, are we working on math? Remember what we did the other day?” To the point where the kiddo was eventually doing it by themselves because that's how they got to the point where they were joining the other students in the whole group because they had found a method that worked for them, and I could no longer, I mean, I could, but I no longer had to do the one on one intensive. Like, all right, let's do this.

So, it closed that gap. It supports the diversity and learners that we have, it prevents bigger problems from arising because that kid could have gotten frustrated, could have said, “screw this,” flipped a desk, and walked out, and it promotes the fairness in the sense that it gives everyone a chance to succeed.

It doesn't matter where they're starting from.

Right. And that's where you're talking about that intensity. Being more individualized means they can get better feedback, they can get faster feedback, they can get more tailored feedback, and then they can actually adjust their learning and see what they're getting, what they're not getting in a faster rate. And then that's what then allows them to not need as much support, which is what you're talking about too.

Yeah, I'm not saying it needs to be one-on-one intensive, but go back, walk around the desk for a little bit, check in on them. If you know a different way to do it, and you don't want to call them out in front of everyone, “Hey, have you tried doing it this way?” Or like, “Do you need extra support?” Let the student advocate for themselves, but just keep giving those regular progress tracks.

Yeah. So then, as you're thinking about intensive instruction and all these different spaces that you have been in, are there any non-examples? Like, it might have been in an intensive space, like in a self contained room or in a therapeutic or alternative setting, but it maybe wasn't exactly intensive instruction. Something that maybe someone thought was intensive just because of the program that they were in, but the practice actually would not count as intensive instruction.

I've seen one-on-ones and whole groups where they think, where the instructor, whoever they may be, is thinking they're providing that individualized support, but in reality, they're just hammering home the here's how everyone else is doing it.

Like just reteaching.

It's just reteaching, going slower, like maybe giving them a little more time, yes. But there is no individualization. There is no… There's no differentiation between what this student needs versus- or these group of student’s needs versus what the whole class needs to help them succeed in the same thing. And like, I wouldn't count- just because you're in a one-on-one group or just because you're in a whatever, I wouldn't necessarily count that as the intensive interventions or instructions or anything. You're just doing things slower.

Yeah, slower or with less people.

Yeah, slower or with less people,-

That doesn’t make it more intensive.

Or in a different setting. Like, I'm sorry, just because the kid was out of the classroom and might be in the library does not mean that this is going to click any better.

Yeah, It's like the instruction itself has not changed, it's just the location and the number of people around, And that's, I think that's really like good observation because a lot of times people think the intensity is defined on the space and it's not. I mean, I have that conversation around, in special education we use the terms least restrictive environments and then converse most restrictive environments, and so it's always that conversation of where does this kid fit? Where can their needs be met?

But a lot of times there are these sort of assumptions that, well, it's in that classroom or it's with that staff, so therefore it must be more intensive. And sometimes it's really not. People are just doing the same thing in a different place or it's a different person doing the same thing, but it's actually not layering onto what was already available to that student. I will say if it's going from a whole group to a one-on-one and there is active interaction with that adult, well then yeah, they are going to get a more intensive form of feedback because they'll be able to ask questions, get that immediate nudge and response, like all of those things that will be more intensive than in a whole group setting.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that the actual instruction is like their learning goals or what type of- I'm just thinking of how you actually do your lesson planning and how you walk them through that learning journey? That may not actually be any different. So I love that you're noting like, hey, it's not location or human dependent, it's actually what you're doing in that interaction.

Yeah, and this is where I'm thankful for specialists that work at the different schools, like the speech path, the OT, PT, occupational therapy, physical therapy, whatever. Like they may do one-on-one, they may do group stuff, but like I've seen them either dive deeper into what their teacher is going in class, like especially with the younger kids learning to read and some students having difficulties with speech, right? Or reading difficulties. They layer on.

And again, the individualization, the customization, the differentiation. Let's dive a little deeper. “Let's make this so that it's tailored to you so that by the time you get back to class, you know, you can read spot finds a tree or whatever insert-name-of-book here”. And conversely, I've seen them do, like, "Hey, teacher, we worked on this. Here's how we did it. Here's how-”. Learn from each other on how to do this individualization and intensity stuff. And, like, it's a group effort. You're not gonna have all the responses or all the answers. Your aides aren't gonna have all the answers. The speech path's not gonna have all their answers. The principal's not gonna have all the answers. But combined, like, “What can we do to make this to meet the needs of this kid? This group of students?

I think you're really speaking to in order for it to truly be intensive, there is an aspect of collaboration and teaming that will need to happen. And so if that's relying on different specialists to identify some of those more individualized learning goals or learning different strategies on how to kind of facilitate growth in some of these areas that students may be struggling in from different fields, different backgrounds. There is a collaborative aspect to that then, all collectively, is what then results in that more intensive instruction, that more individualized, intensive learning journey for the student as they're walking through things.

I mean, send it home, too, with the parents. Give them progress reports. “How is this working?” “Here's how we're doing it in class.” “Here's how kiddo has been doing. It's been working for them.” “I know what the instructions on the homework say, but, like, here's how he/she/they did in class.” “Try this with your kiddos so that they either get more comfortable with it or can transition into what everyone else is doing if that's the goal.”

Include the parents, include the guardians, whoever they are, and include them in that collaboration aspect because it doesn't just end in the building.

Yeah, because something that we haven't really talked about in this part of the episode is really when there's more intensive instruction, then there tends to be an intensive layer of data collection around that, too. And that's exactly what you're talking about. “Here's what we're doing and how we're doing it. But also, here's how that's working. We're seeing change. There's learning going on. This is actually working.”

And quite honestly, any family would be happy to hear when something is going well, especially if the kid is receiving, (I say kid, but student), when the student is receiving intensive instruction, the family has probably received a whole lot of feedback about all the things that they weren't learning and they weren't doing and they weren't performing. So to be able to show, “Hey, this is what we're doing and how it's working, and it is working”, there is that kind of data piece that goes with really showing if that intensity is having the results that we want it to.

Nothing better than hearing my student was struggling with math and was refusing to do it, and thus they were ripping up the paper and flipping desk and walking out but like, okay, we took the minute to address it. We took a minute to figure out what part of what we're doing is causing them to flare up like that, addressing it, working with them to figure out methods that work with them, work for them, that make this either easier or more understandable. And like, all right, Mom and Dad, here you go.

Here's all this. Here's all the stuff that says, yes, we were doing this, now, we're doing this. Now the kiddo is staying in the classroom. Now, the student is participating now, but here's how we got them there. Let's keep it up at home and see if that shifts outside of the classroom environment.

Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing your expertise and all of the different angles that really combine together to make instruction intensive in the way that this high-leverage practice is talking about.

Yeah, my pleasure.