This week, we're talking about High-Leverage Practice number 19, using assistive and instructional technologies. And I know this is typically a High-Leverage practice that we think about, maybe more so with nonverbal students or students with more intensive needs. But there are so many really cool ways to embed that into the instruction, especially for students who are covering some academic deficits with behavior. So, Lathyrelle, what does this practice look like for you?

Well, for me, it could be practiced in a number of different ways, and it's basically based on the needs of the student. So if you have a student who has issues with reading or spelling and things like that, depending on the class, you have to look at what the needs are and what you're doing in a class and what you're trying to evaluate. So if you have a student who you want them to write a five page paper or even a paragraph on a particular subject and you're looking for content, not necessarily grammar, there's nothing wrong with them doing a speech-to-text, being able to talk into the tablet or the computer and to put their thoughts down and have the computer type it out for them if they're not good at spelling or they're not good at reading.

If they are able to put their idea along with content into the computer and it types it out for them, is that really what you're looking for? Or are you looking for spelling? Because then you might look at a different way for them to do spelling for you. But if it's just about content, you can use speech-to-text. You could use that app and that assistive technology to help that student and still be able to grade them appropriately on what you're actually looking for. So when you start thinking outside the box about what you want the student and what you want them to produce in order to get a grade versus looking at the little tiny things like spelling and maybe sometimes grammar, you can kind of balance out if the child can use or the student can use technology versus they need to do pen and paper type of work.

I know sometimes we will write in very explicit uses of assistive technology within, like, an IEP or sometimes even like a 504 plan. But I've always come from the angle of like universal design for learning. Like what's good for one is probably going to be helpful for all. And I really think that that's where this High-Leverage practice, like we can talk the intensity of like, they've got an identified deficit in this area, and that requires these supports so that they can perform similarly.

But there's also just an aspect of, it could just be helpful. As I'm curious, have you ever had to kind of walk with teams as they're just trying to explore what could be helpful? How have you helped teams maybe look beyond just what they're seeing at the moment? Especially with this population, we tend to see behavior. And so now we're saying, well, they're not doing their academics because their behavior is getting in the way.

How have you helped teams to say, okay, but how could we actually leverage that learning opportunity to kind of naturally decrease the behavior just through finding some of these creative solutions, whether it’s tech or just some different types of assistance that can help them through it?

I like the universal design for learning because one of the things that's important is to understand, again, what are you asking of that student? So if that behavior is being disruptive to everybody in the classroom, are you really teaching, or is there something that you can help that student with to lessen the behaviors and give them the things that they need so that at least most of the classroom can learn what you're teaching and that student can start to learn things that they need to be successful?

So sometimes you just have to have a conversation with students. I know we had one instance where we did not realize the student might be dyslexic. So, the student was acting out, and the reading wasn't on par with the grade, and they were a new student to the area. It's middle school. So they had a whole bunch of transitions going on. Looking at their history from the other school, it went to fourth grade. They technically should have gone to fifth grade if they had stayed where they were in the same school. But because they came to this district, fifth grade is now middle school. So they went from having that last year at their school to moving away from friends. They're now in a much bigger school in a new grade. And you saw concerns about reading, but nobody ever really addressed them. So this student was acting out because all this information was being put to them, and they didn't know how to respond.

And so now they're being asked to read books and write paragraphs and things like that. And they literally said, I can't read this one day. And they got upset, they threw the book and said, ‘I can't read it,’ walked out of the classroom, and came to the office. And it was like, Oh, okay. Well, we got a call that the student walked out, but they literally came to the office, and they were upset. And my office happened to be across from the principal, so I heard the principal talking to the student. And he actually ended up bringing the student in my office and was like, ‘You want to talk to them?’ Because they say they can't read certain stuff. And so talking to the kid, and the kid was like, ‘yeah, sometimes letters move.’ I was like, ‘Ooh, flag!” That's not good. And we actually ended up referring them for testing. And one of the things we ended up finding out, the student also couldn't see. They needed glasses.

So, somehow in the transition, the parent was still trying to get glasses for the student, but they lost his glasses moving. And this kid was in school with no glasses, and the letters are moving off the page. So we had to find some things in the meantime to figure out, is this really a reading deficit, or is it something that we can do? We can get them a tablet to look at. And one of the things we actually ended up doing is. Is finding fonts for them that actually made the letters a little bit thicker on the bottom, and that helped them to be able to read.

And in the process, we reached out to another team member who worked in the community, and they were able to get them some glasses in the meantime. They weren’t the glasses that they wanted, but they wore them at home at least, so they were able to read some things. The behavior got a little bit better. We actually ended up referring them out to do outside testing. We just kind of mentioned it, like, hey, do you think there are any other concerns? Do you think it's just reading, or is there something else going on? And mom was like, yeah, I think we've got a history of dyslexia in the family. Might be that, like, ‘oh, well, you might want to look into that.’

So, you know, we kind of referred it back out. But in the meantime, we use some technologies to help that student with the reading, and some of the behaviors did cut down. It wasn't perfect, because when it was too much reading, things like English and social studies, it was a problem, but they at least tried. So it became a thing of, okay, what do we really need for this student to do? Can we use some of those technologies to just have them talk things out? Can they be with a partner to help them read and track what they're reading? Can they work in teams to do assignments so they're not losing as many points and things of that nature? So it's a lot of different strategies we had to use. Probably this year coming up, we're going to end up referring that person for Child Find, depending on what the parent did over the summer.

What it boils down to is that you have to really think outside the box. Sometimes you have to bring in technology, sometimes you have to use some modifications and different strategies to help that student so that they're not as distracted in class or distract the other students, and allow you to teach. So you just have to look at different ways of trying to use what you have to help everybody across the board. So that's just one example I had this year.

Well, I appreciate that your examples of technology are changing a font or glasses, and those are technically technologies. But a lot of people will hear technology and think an app or a program or something that must live on a device or something like that. So I love that you're bringing forward like, no, it's actually a whole bunch of different things, and use what you have, right? Like whatever you've already got. My background in teaching math, I mean, a technology was a calculator. And there are differences of perspectives on whether you can do algebra before you know your times tables. There are different schools of thought, with like, no, they need to know their basic facts before they can do anything beyond that. Or no, you accommodate, and you assist with some of those things. As long as they've got that mathematical relativity, they can tell the difference of, they plug something into the calculator, and it's completely bogus. They'll be able to know that, oops, I did something wrong there.

But like, those are technologies, right? And it's just those little boosters, those little things that can really be supportive. But I also appreciate how you're then saying, ‘yeah, and it's not always just behavior.’ And I love the story that you shared because the kid was like, ‘I can't read.’ Like, this is not something I can do. And they were able to identify what some of that underlying piece of like, ‘yeah, I'm getting angry, and I'm throwing my book or whatever, but it's because I can't read.’ And not all students do that. I think not all students are even aware of what’s hard for them. They just know that school is hard, but they haven't really drilled down to, like, ‘I can't read.’

So for you, as you're supporting teams, trying to figure out, like, what is going on behind this behavior and what do we already have that we can try to just pilot, see what works, see if something is helpful. How do you guide teams through even trying to dream up what might be some easy ways of trying something different to see if they get a different response from that student?

Well, I think you really need to talk to your teens because a lot of schools have, like, reading specialists and math interventionists, and sometimes the parents. I mean, I've gotten some amazing information from parents. Programs that they saw their child struggling with when they were younger, and they tried it with their student, and it worked great. They got them back on point even with, I talked about the different font that came from a parent whose child had dyslexia, and they were like, ‘Yeah, that helped my student.’

And so as they're telling me different things, I'm talking to different parents in different capacities. I'm taking notes. I'm going to the website as they're telling me about the website, and I'm staring at it. And so those become part of my resources. And one thing I've learned is, is that teachers like good resources. They may not always know how to use them, but they like a good resource.

So one of the things I've learned is that if I get a good resource and I see how it works and things like that, I will refer to a school counselor, to the teacher, I'll reach out to the reading interventionist to see what they've done. Parents, again, will tell you information about things that are out there and what they found on apps, because they're trying to figure this out too. So you just talk to your team to figure out what's going on. You got some old veteran folks out there. You've got these young people who know technology like the back of their hand. Talk to them about it. I'm kind of in between when it comes to technology and all that stuff. I know old school, but not really. I like a good app that's going to make things easier for me. And sometimes the kids figure out things. I found out some of the kids, fifth, sixth grade, are using AI to write their stuff, and it's like, ‘Oh, well, that's great. I'm glad you found it. However, what are you actually learning? And are you learning the right information?’

So that's another thing that you have to teach about technology when you're working with students, is that all the information that's out there may not be correct. And so that's your chance to teach internet safety, limiting your time on there. There's nothing wrong with going to a book and trying to figure it out, comparing it, things like that. So, you know, these are some of the strategies that you teach to other professionals so they can teach them to the students.

And sometimes you just have to skip the other professional and do it yourself. So, yeah, it's just a lot of different things that you have to experience and just try out. And wherever you get that information from, whether it's from a student, parent, caregiver, somebody you happen to be at a conference with, just take that information and just add it to your bank of resources that you can use and provide to other people.

I'm so thankful that this entire conversation has not been housed on running a specific assessment to define a certain device that is approved for student use, which is so often how assistive tech is looked at. So I'm curious for you, how, as a professional, have you been able to see all of these tools as resources, as kind of that universal design, as also, like a school psychologist, that is very specific in knowing, like, what is the exact need and how do you align this specific tool or resource to that need?

I mean, we haven't talked about, well, in 504s, we use this, and IEPs, we use this, or if this, diagnostic category has been better achieved, then this type of thing would be appropriate to include in the formal documentation. So I'm really curious just to learn from you. Like, how have you held that perspective? That's just like, well, figure it out. Try some stuff, talk to people, learn things. Like, how did you get there from such a technical field?

I said in a different podcast. I'm a lifelong learner. I like trying different things, and I like learning different things. And I love how, again, people talk about what they know and they love. People like to share information. That's what it boils down to. They like to share information. I like learning about different things. So I just kind of take pieces with me that are appropriate, even if it's not appropriate for what I do, I still keep them because somebody might need them. And just knowing that if you can't get to a school psychologist, here's something else that you can use in the meantime. If you can't get to that psychiatrist, that medical doctor, here are some other resources that you can use, because we all know there's a shortage of educators out there. It's going to be, if not already, there are shortages of doctors and nurses and things like that. You have to keep things where you have to maintain them until you get there.

So those types of resources that are out there, I'm used to providing, just from my experience in mental health, I'm used to providing resources that help you maintain till you get the things that you really need and get that appointment that you need. So that's kind of where some of that mentality comes from, as well as always wanting to learn. You'll be very surprised that necessity leads to ingenuity, as they say, when it comes to being able to figure things out and make things easier. No matter what their background is, people have expertise in something, and you have to be open to it and listen to it, and take that information, as you're not an expert in everything. So take the information and keep it in your back pocket, and then you can use it and then provide it to somebody else. So that's the kind of mentality I have when it comes to getting new information.

Again, I always think that it doesn't matter who they are; they can teach you about something you didn't know. Whether it's a child teaching you something, somebody that's nonverbal teaching you something, somebody older, younger, in a different profession, somebody else can always teach you something that you didn't know. So that's the mentality that I have. And then you also have to know your deficits. That's the other thing. You know your deficits. You also want to make sure that you are covering those deficits and at least acknowledging that you don't know, and you can move on to someone who does know, and then you pick up information from there. So it's a lot of different components, a lot of different experiences that happen this way, but I think it's definitely been beneficial overall for me in my profession.

Oh, I know on our team, whenever I'm trying to come up with resource banks or what's another angle? Or is there another field or organization or someone who may have something, I'm always like, hey, let's ask Lathyrelle. Like, you're always very aware of different resources or at least aware enough to know where to go find different types of resources. And so yes, on our team, you are definitely the resource queen. So no surprises here.

Well, thank you so much for taking a little bit of time to chat through what AT and instructional tech can look like, especially at just like a ‘let's figure it out together’ type of level for students who are struggling, typically with behaviors, and kind of hiding some of those other things underneath all of what we are actually watching. So thank you so much for having this conversation with me today.

Thank you for having me.