This week, we're talking about High-Leverage Practice 8, providing positive and constructive feedback to guide students' behavior. And this week I've got Cass with me. So, Cass, I have seen you do this so fluently in so many different ways in your practice. What does this look like? 

I think it's such a pivotal part of everything that we do, and it's woven into absolutely any task that we can come up with. I'm not just talking about our students, I'm also talking about our staff, the people that are just around us, our colleagues, everyone. Because in everything that I say and everything that I do, when I step into that space- So for me, it's my classroom. But it's not just a classroom. It's the hallways. It's the moment I walk through that door. Sometimes, before I even walk in the door, I meet with parents and students alike. And it's about how I carry myself. And those students are watching me.

So not only am I providing that positive feedback and constructive feedback to these people in all settings, but I'm also modeling that behavior for my students as well. So this is something that is so foundational to everything that we do. If we can create a community and an environment where it's not scary and it's not hard to hear, not only the kind of tough stuff for the stuff we got to work on, but also the good stuff too.

And I think often we're so focused on ‘what can we fix, what can we fix?’ “Here, you need to change this. You need to grow here,” which is very important information. It's also really, really, really important to set aside, separate time to make sure that we're saying, “Hey, I also see you. I see that you led with kindness today. I saw that you took your time and you were patient with a friend who was having a hard time communicating. That's awesome.”

And for me, in practice, that means pulling my student aside, maybe pausing my lesson, and having a very one-on-one moment. Sometimes I'm praising them in front of the group. It just kind of depends on the person and how they prefer to be received or to be noticed. And I may pull them aside and say, “hey, I know that you've been having a tough time, but I want you to know that I also recognize that you really did some really awesome things today, too.”

Maybe we didn't meet our goals that day, but that doesn't mean that we don't also recognize the really wonderful progress that we did make. Or maybe we're using coping skills that we didn't use before. So there are so many opportunities and so many variations that you can approach this. I know we're going to dive in further, but for me, it has to show up in every single moment of my day so that my students see that I'm recognizing my staff, so that my students see that it's okay to say, “Hey, I was thinking something really nice about you.” I'm going to say it out loud, and I'm going to leave it there. But they're also seeing how I communicate when my boundaries are crossed. “Hey, I want to let you know, you crossed my boundary that I set for you, and I would appreciate it if you could respect that in the future.” So even simple moments like that, we're demonstrating, it's okay to make mistakes. You're still loved, still wonderful. But it's really important that you do clear this up.

And for us, that helps our community. It helps us support not only our students, but also our students support each other. And getting to see that, getting to see a student say, “Hey, I'm going to give you grace, because I've been given grace, and I've been taught how to do that by someone just simply modeling it.” So, “Hey, I'm going to give you grace. I'm not usually that kind of guy, but today you've got it.” We're going to hype him up too. And so recognizing those things and seeing that can weave this community and this feeling of where everyone's going to belong, even if you sometimes mess up. And that's been huge for us.

I think in some ways that it can go in different directions and be challenging, especially with our students with those emotional and behavioral disabilities. It's hard sometimes, especially if they've gone a couple of months where every single day it's a battle to get them to show up for themselves. And that can be, I think, one of the main challenges, or what kind of stops people from remembering that and getting back on track to lead their students that way.

Thank you so much for recognizing that this is not just what we do with our students, but it's who we are. Like, if we are not embodying this practice all day, every day, in any of those interactions, it's just how we interact to our core. It's fake, it's half-hearted, and it doesn't land. It doesn't land and stick nearly as much as when we're just doing it naturally. Because that's who we are and how we engage, we're then showing like, ‘oh, that's just how humans engage’ as opposed to, ‘oh, that's what my teacher tells me when they want this or when they think that.’ Like, there are no contingencies here. We're just getting to be humans together.

So I'm curious, when you're doing this, there's gotta be, and I've watched it in your student population, motivation, engagement, and independence, there are so many cool things that come from just acknowledging the behavioral sides in that positive and constructive way. Can you share a little bit more about that?

So motivation. I heard you say that. That's going to be kind of the direction I'm going to head with this because that is key. And it has to start from day one. So a lot of people believe that it's about, well, me as a teacher and the head of the classroom, I have to make sure that all my students like me. Right? Sure. To some degree, that's important, but that doesn't automatically connect them with motivation to want to follow what I'm doing. That doesn't necessarily do that.

So when a lot of teachers think that ‘I'm prepping for the school year, here are my rules. We're going to go over our rules on the first day. We're going to keep doing that.’ And even in best practice, that may not land, especially for these students. Because, again, these are probably similar rules. ‘Okay, here are the laws. We've written them for you. You've no say. You have no choice. You can't even choose the vocabulary on how these rules are written.’

So something that I do in my classroom is that I keep them a part of that.And any way that we can give these students a choice, we've got to do that. And so I can give them a choice on what their rules look like. And I know on the receiving end, this sounds absolutely bonkers, but hear me out. I do this every year. At the beginning of the year, I have my students close their eyes, and I say, “I want you to imagine your favorite person. In your life, that you see regularly, who is the best person that you know?”

Because for them, that is immediately intrinsic. That is something that is already reinforced, already established within them. I don't have to establish that yet for them to want to follow rules. So then we say, “Okay, now we're each going to open our eyes and share what it is that about that one person that we believe makes them the greatest person we know?” And so if we can create a rule off of that or core values for our classroom to be a good human, that is our goal.

Our goal is not get stuck here and have a safe place to just be ourselves. And that's all we can do. Which is beautiful. It is. But our goal is that when they leave my space, they can go out and they can be good humans and be proud of the humans that they are. Now. That right there is going to motivate them to do it. Well, if I can be like my uncle, okay, this teacher is going to help me do that. Okay. All right.

So now we've created an emotional connection that is automatically reinforcing. We have also established rules that they had a say in, which is automatically motivating. And so all of this kind of creates this little storm inside of them. And a little fire that says, “You know what? Everyone has told me that, ‘Oh, I deserve to be in this room. I deserve to be self-contained. I deserve to have the worst. I've done this to myself.’” Well, what have you done but identified you need a little help, so let's get you there.

If you want to be a good person. I can't imagine looking back and saying, I don't want to be a good person. And most of my students, once they truly, truly admit it, and it doesn't take long, I want people to walk away and say, “I really enjoyed being around you.” And so let's do that. Let's set that up for you. And their favorite thing is to come up with five rules. That's where we start. Okay, we'll identify those, and we'll keep pushing. And these students are so motivated to be good humans and believe that they truly can, and they have this fire relit in them. Well, I know somebody who's a good human. I could do that. I could do that. It doesn't have to be me. It doesn't have to be you. It doesn't have to be someone you know. But as long as it is someone important to them, that's all that matters. Identifying that has to be step one.

But from there, you have to layer in all of those other motivating things. Those are gonna be a lot more specific to each student. But making sure that you take the time to do that and motivate them, and remind them, ‘Think of your worst day. You dropped this, and you dropped that. You know, you get the case of the dropsies, right? Man, by the fifth thing that you drop in 30 minutes, you're gonna be like, what the heck is going on? I'm feeling a little low. I'm feeling a little discouraged.’

Imagine being in school, gosh, in grade school, even middle school, then, right? How many years has it been that people have reminded you of all the things you've done wrong and forgotten all the wonderful things that you've done, or even the steps towards progress that you've made? It's that every single day for them, it's the case of the dropsies. So if you can be the person who says, “Hey, I noticed that you picked it up and you weren’t mad about it. It's awesome. Good for you. Let's keep moving in that direction.” 

We don't have to wait until they reach that goal to reinforce them. It doesn't have to be end game. They don't have to have perfect behavior before we start reinforcing them. It has to be, ‘I see you. I see you. I see you. You can do better. You got this. You did better yesterday. Come on, let's get back on it. I see you.’ Those moments of I see you are some of the most intrinsically valuable things to motivate them to keep moving forward and creating that connection between you and them that is hard.

That is what stops us, right? Is that I am tired. We are tired with a classroom full of those, and to notice that, or you're having a bad day because you're human, too. But taking that moment, to set that aside and remember that that child is also experiencing their own day. And if you're going to take that moment, man, I could use some reinforcement right now. Could you imagine how much reinforcement he probably needs to?

So just remembering those sorts of things and continuing to layer, continuing to dig deep and find what matters most to that student is going to help you create an environment that's like, ‘oh, I want to be here. I want to hit that goal. I want to go out and be that good human.’ It's been pivotal for a lot of my students.

I am so appreciative of how you are just straight-up calling out all of this deficit thinking. Like, it doesn't matter if you struggle because there can still be progress. You're so unashamed in how you're just like, ‘yeah, sure, they're here for a reason, but so are we, so let's do something with it.’

I think before we sign off today, let's get kind of practical. So when you're looking at providing that constructive feedback, specifically around behavior, and it's in that positive way, let's walk through some examples of, like, what is it? What is it not? Because I know I have definitely worked with staff who are providing maybe somewhat condescending feedback, but they're smiling, and they're so nice, and how they're doing it. It's like, yeah, you might be sort of positive, but that's not actually positive or constructive.

So, like, walk me through in your practice, what are some of those examples of things that you're like, ‘yup, this really hits the mark.’ And maybe a couple of examples where you're like, either ‘I tried that, didn't work,’ or like, ‘this doesn't actually meet the criteria for this High-Leverage Practice.’ 

Okay, well, I am not a perfect person. I'll never claim to be. And so there have been moments where I've misstepped, too. It's easy to do. And like I said, I mean, life's happening to us also. And so I think before I dive into those examples, I want to make sure that as I recognize the deficits and the hard parts of it, I want to also recognize that taking that time to recognize when you are not level, when you're not regulated. So that you can give that feedback without being condescending. That you can give well thought-out, true feedback that doesn't feel backhanded, that doesn't feel icky, or feel hard. Where you're like, “Well, that wasn't how I meant it, but that's how it came out.” We can clear all that up by making sure that we are prepared. And so again, we recognize those deficits, recognize that when you are ready to give that feedback, because we do want it to be really, really, really touching and constructive. We want to reach that student and make that connection, and not be throwing out the same feedback every single day.

So some of the ways that it has been really, really, really beneficial is in getting the full picture of that student. So when I recognize that this student's behavior is starting to instigate. I'm going to give a little example of a specific student I had and a new friend. He's been in my classroom for some time, and he is very passionate, very loyal, and just loves justice. He's a beautiful human, has an incredible heart. And when he loves, he loves hard. But we also deal with a lot of stuff at home that has given us some examples of relationships that maybe aren't super healthy. And so he has not learned that structure yet. Okay? So keep those things in mind. This student would get combative when other students wanted to be friends with our new friend. And he would argue, or he would instigate, and he would start things out of nothing, right? “Well, I'm not going to be your friend. I'm not going to be this or that.”

And so time and time again, I would be like, “Okay, well then you can't play with them. If you can't be nice, we can't play.” Oh my gosh, the behavior kept happening. So I'm like, okay, well, he's not getting that contingency. If I can't be nice, then I can't play. He's not understanding that. So there's something deeper here. So understanding that full picture, understanding what his background was, I pulled him aside, and I said, “Hey, it's okay. If you share your friends. That doesn't make them any less your friend.”

And for a moment, that didn't make sense to him. That didn't compute. And I kind of broke it down like this, and I said, and this is a one-on-one conversation. This kind of feedback you're not going to give in front of anybody else. This is going to be you and that student. And so he took some quiet time. I let him think, and I said, “You don't have to work so hard to be loved. They all love you in there. And here you're safe to be you. And to know that even if that new student chooses to play with that other kid, you still matter to them, too.” He just kind of washed over in tears. And it was a real, I think, a new leaf for him where he turned it over. And even that day, he went in there, and he said that to the other student, “Hey, I'm really sorry I said those things. I want you to be my friend. It's the opposite. I was just really having a hard time.”

And so to know that my student can not only receive that feedback, but also process it and then go and act on that feedback and clear up or correct those wrongs is completely embedded in what we do. And so he is going to get reinforced not just one time, but several times along the way in multiple different sources. So we have classroom points and things like that. Because that's what he needs. Now I have other students. That new student didn't need all of those working wheels at the same time. And you're going to identify those things. And when you feel like something isn't clicking, it's not. You're either missing something or you're taking the wrong approach. And there have been times where I've called him out, ‘hey, you can't play, you can't be nice, you can't play.’ And that didn't help. That made him feel more ostracized. And so understanding those inner workings and those layers specific to each student. Sometimes it comes from their story. That's going to really help you understand. Because, ‘hey, I took his points away.’ ‘Hey, I followed the same structure.’ ‘We had the rules. We all agreed on this. This is part of the behavior plan.’ We are doing all the things, but maybe sometimes it's how you said it, maybe sometimes you need to pull them aside so that they can put their pride aside as well.

So it's those sorts of things. And I think it's easy to hit that confrontation with a lot of people right away. Okay, well, I've addressed it, right? And I can move on to the next thing. There's another thing going on in this corner of the room. I need to deal with that, or I'm teaching a lesson to a small group, those sorts of things. It's really easy to just, like, ‘I've said it, I've ended it. He needs to just listen.’

But then we keep hitting that same problem. Then we're not fixing that. And that's when we know that feedback is going to be a little bit off kilter. If he is walking away, great. But if the problem's still occurring, that means we're not getting to the problem. So we have to create that feedback in a space that makes sense, and we have to adjust. And I think that's the big misstep, is that we keep kind of hitting that wall and hitting our head against that saying, “Oh, I keep doing it, I keep giving feedback, and nothing's changing.” Well, that means that we have to change what we're doing.

Your example, yes, it's a verbal example. Of course, there's nonverbal. I've seen you do, like, a look, the wink on the side of your face, those kinds of things. Or everybody knows, like, oh, okay, we're good, right? But this example that you're walking through, it was timely, right? You caught it in that moment. Not every time we get that opportunity, but in this example, it was like, you saw it, you took that opportunity. It was contingent. It was connected directly to the interactions that were going on, with kind of an immediate opportunity to go try something different with it. It was purely genuine.

Like the way you're walking your student through that is so human, and it's meaningful. It doesn't just have meaning in that moment, for that purpose, or to make your life easier. It has meaning for that student, their life, their future relationships, and their relational capacity. It was age-appropriate. You met them exactly where they were at, and you walked them through it in a way that would make sense for them. And heck, you even called out like, and then we're going to do this and this other thing, and we're going to add in these other pieces, and that's not what everybody else needs.

I mean, you literally just walked through this High-Leverage Practice. Didn't even talk about that before recording this. It literally checks all of the boxes. Like, that is such a beautiful example of how something that's just a teachable moment. Like, we just show up. We're humans together. We're just doing this thing called education in our classrooms and in our spaces, and it just happens. So, yes, there are these fancy High-Leverage Practices with all these checkboxes and these strategies and criteria and all of these things. But so many of us are just showing up and doing our thing, and it's actually catching.

You're doing more than you realize you're doing. And I think a lot of the times, like, especially with the way that we think as educators, we have to check all these boxes. We have to do this, and I have to make sure that this is posted, and I have to make sure I’m communicating this, and I'm scaffolding, and I'm doing this, and all these things. And while absolutely crucial High-Leverage Practices are with these students and with really all students, we have to remember too that you are in this space because you want to be and because you're the right kind of person.

And so remembering and identifying that these can happen. It's not just a box we check and ‘Okay, we've done high leverage practice number eight for today, and that is all you're going to get of me.’ We have seven hours left, right? We can't do that. We have to embed it in what we do. But we also have to recognize that we're doing it. We're in there, and we're doing it and creating that kind of space, and for just feedback alone is huge. It's absolutely huge. And if you can create that environment, you're doing this High-Leverage Practice. You just have to recognize that you're doing it so you can continue it.