A Conversation About...

A Conversation about
Finding Empathy in Conflict

Episode Description

Tension shows up in every season of life—sometimes in big blowups, sometimes in a thousand tiny paper cuts. In this episode, Heather and Flora talk about what it looks like to truly be present when things get uncomfortable, whether that’s a tough family gathering, a tense holiday party, or an unexpected moment of conflict at work or home.

They share real stories about managing emotions in the heat of the moment, setting boundaries, taking a “teacher timeout,” and choosing empathy when everything in you wants to shut down or walk away. This conversation is about showing up in hard moments, caring for yourself first, and keeping relationships intact even when tensions rise.

Key Points and Takeaways

  • Tense situations during the holiday season can be challenging, but being present and engaged is crucial.
  • Mental preparation and self-care are essential before entering tense situations.
  • Empathy and understanding can help navigate conflicts and find common ground.
  • Setting boundaries and taking breaks during conflicts can help maintain emotional well-being.
  • Pausing and asking questions can diffuse tense situations and foster understanding.
Podcast Guest

Flora Yao

Flora Yao is a content designer, online community host, and executive administrator with a focus on visual content creation, iterative coordination, graphic design, communications management, event marketing, and making ideas happen. Since the beginning of TLC, Flora has advanced to the role of executive administrator of Threshold Learning Consultancy and Secretary to the Board of Directors of TLC Nonprofit, drawing on her experience as an online store manager, product design contributor, social media manager, and housekeeping team leader. Outside of her professional work, Flora enjoys caring for early learners within her community and is an avid bird lover. She is a mixed-media artist with training in brand visuals and communications.
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Host: Heather Volchko

Guest: Flora Yao

Okay. So I know a lot of what we've been talking about this month is it kind of sounds good in theory. I think we've included a variety of examples of where this shows up in our lives or different interactions that we've had. But quite honestly, sometimes it's just tense, it's uncomfortable. We're in the presence of people we don't want to be around, or we're showing up to an obligation because we have to be there.

Even just the whole tenor of the room can be tense. So those are hard. It is hard to not just kind of maybe even go into self-protect mode and kind of remove ourselves from it while we're physically present. Really, everything else is not present at that moment. Right.

Right. I mean, we're in the holiday season, and not everybody loves the holidays, and not everybody's had a good year. So definitely those gatherings. Some people are super happy, and it's been a great year, and some people have had loss and devastation and things like that, and they're trying to be happy in the moment because everybody else is. But, yeah, you're really right.

I feel like it happens a lot this time of year, too, because we're kind of smashed right in the middle of this week. We're kind of in the middle of a bunch of the typical winter holidays, and then it comes right up into the New Year season, and there's all of this reflection and preparing and all of these things. That's what we'll talk about next week. But I want to honor and acknowledge that there is a lot of discomfort in that, that there is a lot of just internal conflict, social conflict, even just by the time we get to this part of December, just tensions are high all around. And so it doesn't even really matter what the conflict is. It could be something super small, and it just sets off all of this tension that's been building up through the whole season.

In theory, in this moment when we're supposed to be relaxing and starting to enjoy maybe some time off of work or having the kids around the house or whatever that may be, nothing brings.

Out that pent-up rage out until you get. And here comes your mother-in-law. My mother-in-law is wonderful, by the way.

I know she's a sweet lady. Yeah. But there are some times it's a big deal in and of itself, and now we have to deal with it on top of those tensions. And sometimes the conflict is just a series. What is it? Death by a 1000 paper cuts or something like that, right? Like, little thing, little thing, little thing. Little thing. Little thing, little thing. And all of a sudden, all the little things are now just big, ugly things.

But I think those scenarios, as someone who has worked in crisis situations and lots of emotional behavioral volatility, I would say mostly from students, but also from staff or families, the community, different situations that have happened in communities. There is an aspect of being present in conflict. I think it's maybe similar, but it's also, I think, got some differences, too. And I think about how I manage myself.

Like last week, we were talking about that emotional intelligence, right? So I need to be more aware of where my emotional levels are at and how I'm kind of prone to react or respond to any given situation. So I know I have to use a lot more strategies when I'm in conflict to kind of keep myself together than I would have to do if I'm just distracted or some of the other things we talked about earlier this month.

Right. Mental preparation is a thing for some people. It's for family gatherings. Maybe there's some tension in your family, and you've got to mentally prepare yourself so you don't go in just guns blazing. Oh, no, I don't want to use that term. Sorry.

You're good. So backup and give it another running start.

Yeah.

You're good.

I don't even remember what I was talking about.

Your family you may have conflict or tension in your family, and you need to be mentally prepared before then.

Right. Okay. So for some people, it's family. There might be some tension in your family, and so you got to mentally prepare yourself so you don't go in just ready to get super angry if someone says hi and you just go off. You've got to prepare yourself. And some people, it's maybe like a holiday party with your coworkers, and you do not want to be around them. So you have to mentally prepare yourself so you don't go in looking all mopey-faced and everything.

And I do that a lot. As an introvert, going to any kind of gathering, I have to mentally prepare myself, so you can't spring it on me. If you invite me to something that day, I'm probably going to say no. I need like a week to mentally prepare myself to be around a lot of people. But it's the same when there's tension. Maybe there's tension between two of your friends and you really want to go to this gathering, but you know, you might have to play in between or peacemaker, and you really have to prepare yourself for the inevitable, I guess.

Yeah, I think part of that for me, something that I've just kind of grown into, I think it was mostly from my professional walk, is just trying to find something salvageable in either the moment, the situation, the person, whatever it is. And I say that from even just sitting at the table in really tense professional dialogues, especially working in special education, I've been at many tables where significant decisions are being made about a student and their current as well as long-term life outcomes.

And sometimes it can be incredibly frustrating to hear the perspectives of staff, and honestly, sometimes families that maybe view this situation or this student or this moment in this student's life in ways that don't allow there to be optimism. So I think for me, something that I've started just throughout my career is even when I'm sitting in these tense moments and I'm kind of having my internal dialogue and can kind of see myself sort of disengaging and being physically present and mentally and emotionally, I'm just done here shifting that to find some empathy for the people who are communicating whatever it is that I am not having at the moment.

Right.

And hear through what they're saying so that I can understand what's going on behind those words. That has helped me so much. Just shifting from just feeling the conflict to leveraging empathy to see where that conflict may be even coming from.

Yes, no, I agree with you. That's something I've been learning in the past couple of years, too, is that there's always a reason why somebody's doing something. And yeah, I totally agree with you on that.

People pick on me all the time for saying it too much, but I'll say people make sense even when they don't. And so it's a matter of going, okay, well, this makes sense to them somehow. How does this make sense? Right? And if I can choose to approach that conflict or that tense situation with some empathy, it positions for me, at least I've been then able to see through that and try to figure out, okay, how does this actually make sense to them?

I've also done that with students who are escalated in borderline crisis situations. And I'm trying to figure out what's actually going on here because what I'm seeing is clearly not making sense. There's got to be something else. But I think the same thing is true when family or friends or especially this week with all the last minute holiday shopping and preparations and all those things right. Everybody's just on edge, flying around, trying to do all the things, all the places that. It's just like, wow, what's actually going on here? Because this is not that.


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Empathy and understanding can help navigate conflicts and find common ground.

HEATHER VOLCHKO

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Right. We've been talking a lot about meeting people where they're at. And you just have kind of touched on that this week as well, where that one person, I'm not going to say it's me, it's me. That one person who is not a fan of the holidays, there's usually a reason. They're not always just a Grinch born that way. They just hate the holidays. There's usually a reason why, and I know because of my experiences, why I hate the holidays. I know there are probably other people who aren't a big fan, and I will usually ask them why, just out of curiosity.

And even though I'm not a huge holiday person, I have a lot of friends who are. And so I can expect to be invited to things and I'm not going to go to them with the grumpy face, the sad face I can focus on. I'm with the people I love. I'm around people I super duper enjoy being around. And that perspective helps me to enjoy myself and not just bring down the mood of everybody there, I think, for having that perspective on others. Well, not that perspective, but I think that if you see someone having a hard time during the holidays, definitely have that conversation with them, if they're willing to have it so that you can better understand, maybe next year I won't invite them to that party.

I'll ask if they just want to go have coffee and not have a big group of people and just maybe they need to vent about this person and the gifts and the shopping and the kids and just let them have that space instead of inviting them to a giant party that they're not going to be comfortable at. You know what I mean? We're saying meeting people where they're at. And also a perspective change on my part.

Yeah. I think that ties back to, I think something I had said a couple of weeks ago. Just like when we're sitting in a room and a different group of people gets something funny and not everybody in the room gets it, then just turn to it, and share it. Right. We were kind of talking about it in the sense of including everyone in that. And I think this is a cool example because it still includes everyone, but it's almost including them individually. Right. Like you're noticing that, hey, this isn't a thing for you.

So I can choose to engage in something that is a thing for you, and that's also inclusive in its own right to say, hey, I know holidays are tough, or I know there are too many parties, right? Like all of these things, hey, can we just go grab some coffee? You're being so honoring and respectful of that person, and especially if you're just kind of like, I know this about you, and I'm just going to put that offer out there on the table from the beginning. I'm a person who will provide, especially with students, lots of options.

Right. So do you want to do a group thing? Do you want to do a one-on-one thing? Do you want to be in the room? Do you want to be out of the room? Choose your own adventure here. But that way, I'm never really assuming that, well, this is who you are and this is what you like. Well, choose your own adventure. Right now, you're feeling social. Cool, let's go be social. Right now, you're not feeling it. Cool, let's not. Rig. Like allowing some of the people that we're with to drive it.

I love that you're providing this example because it's honestly kind of an opposite example of what I had shared the first week, but it's driving at the exact same thing, is just knowing our people. And we do that by being present and being observant and seeing and noticing the trends over time, but also those changes over time being keyed into the nuance. But, gosh, if we're doing that and we're still finding our moments that are tense and in conflict, gosh, how much more prepared are we to truly be present in that conflict? Because it's a moment.

It's positioned in the midst of something that's so much bigger than just that point of conflict.

Right.

So I'm wondering, then, do we have any ideas? This might be like jumping ahead a little bit to what we're going to talk about next week, but to be able to sit in tension is a skill, I think. Was it last week or the week before that we were talking about a component of being present is caring for ourselves so that we can then care for other people? So to be able to say, okay, I know I'm walking into this situation and I know it's going to be tense. I know there's going to be conflict.

What are those self-care things that we need to do so that we can actually be present in conflict, and we're not just sitting in that reactive mode ourselves?

Wow, that's a lot to think about. I think definitely one thing is to not overbook yourself, because if you know, like, say on Friday, you're going to go to something where there might be some tension like you were saying, don't plan something Saturday, don't have a full day Saturday so that you have some space to decompress from that, because then you're going to go into the next thing super tense and it can set off other things. So definitely giving yourself that space and that grace to come down off of something like breathing a little bit is definitely something I would suggest.

I like that. I think I also kind of do it on the front end, too. Definitely. I know I've walked into buildings and even just had the moment to walk from the office to whatever situation is going on. And even just in those few minutes or whatever it is, even as I'm maybe receiving information about what's going on, doing my own thing. So if it's taking deep breaths or just being very aware of what's around me to keep me grounded in the current moment and being fully present so that my head is in the right space to be able to walk into a crisis situation and support a kid, a staff, whoever is around in whatever way, even just kind of that preparation, walking into it.

Right? Yeah. That's something that I can't remember if my husband taught me that or somebody taught him that, and I picked it up from him, but that not being ashamed to sit in the car for two minutes before you go into somewhere. So, like, if you've had a rough day at work, sit in the car for two minutes before you go into the house so that you and your significant other don't just immediately start butting heads. Just give yourself that space to breathe a little bit and get your head in the right spot. So I sometimes have to do that before going into things so that I can clear my mind of all that negative stuff I want to say and just be like, I care about this person and we have differences of opinions, but I do love them.

So let's try to make it through this kind of like a pep talk. Pep talking yourself before going into something that can make a huge difference. Because if you go in negative and they come in negative, you're going to get. I mean, I know negative plus negative is positive, but that's not how it works with relationships. So if at least you go in with a clear mind and a smile on your face, that might calm that other person down a little bit or make things a little bit easier for you, at least.

Yeah, I think it was last week? We were talking about open communication, and I was talking about how I can hold some boundaries in terms of I'm not in a place right now to be able to support you. Give me a little bit of time so I can pull myself together, and then I can support you. Having that. I would call it like that, psychological safety. To be able to say, hey, I'm going to draw a boundary, and for you to be able to not feel put off or dismissed by that, knowing that, no, it's a moment, it's a boundary, and then I will honor my word and I am going to call back.

I think I've done the same thing in reverse, going, okay, I hear you're not done with this conversation. I have a meeting that's starting in 15 minutes. I'm going to need to clear my head. So, five more minutes, you've got me and I'm fully yours. But I do need to hang up in five minutes. Right. And then that gives me those ten minutes to decompress from the conversation I was just having and then get into a headspace where I can handle what I kind of assume is going to be a tense conversation or a heavy conversation, if you will.

So I think those little things I think, also help me. But I think that's also just been because I don't always know what's coming when I can use boundaries and kind of plan ahead. Cool. But when I'm in a classroom and one of my guys goes sideways, well, here we are. So, how do I walk that? I think the same thing happens sometimes in family situations. Everything seems okay, and then someone says something, and that goes sideways somewhere else. And all of a sudden, now we're in this tense moment that was not by design.

Yeah.

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Setting boundaries and taking breaks during conflicts can help maintain emotional well-being.

Flora yao

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Piggybacking off of that something, a discipline that I had to teach myself, was definitely in the moment. It could start to get extremely heated, is to pause and really be like, hey, so can we come back to this when I'm in a better spot? And the amount of heated debates or arguments or whatever that can stop is amazing because you can go, take the time, a couple of days, a couple of minutes, whatever it is, take the time to actually think through something and not just spit out the first thing that comes to your mind.

That will make a huge difference. I know that's going to be rough if you're at a holiday party or something like yeah. Come back to me on that. But that discipline of just not. Because in the moment, you can say some not great things that you regret. And so taking that time and giving yourself that space to actually think through something and think what you want to say first, something not so hateful or just in that moment, you could save a relationship, you could stop a lot of hurt.

Yeah, I think when you're talking about this, it's making me think of something that I learned from a wise mentor of mine. They called it a teacher timeout. So when the staff or the person kind of leading the lesson is not in the right headspace, they would take a teacher time out and basically model for the class what it looks like to disengage, to engage in whatever self-calming or whatever it is that pulls me back to where I can actually be good at what I'm doing and then reengage, thank them, and then jump back in.

I learned that early in my career, and that has served me so stinking well, especially because a lot of times I'm working with students who are also trying to learn those skills. So to demonstrate, hey, it's not just you, I need that, too. But we were able to do that even in conflict. Right? So some kid called me some name, and it hit me where typically at this point, I've been called so many things, it's whatever, right? But there's a different name that hits me in a different way, that I'm like, oh, that one stung.

And I'll give kind of that nonverbal ouch and just kind of say, you know what? I'm going to take a pause here. I don't want to say something that I might regret, so I'm going to step back and just acknowledge it, right? Put it into the room, allow it to be part of that experience as part of the conflict, but then pull myself back together and come back and say, okay, where are we at now? And reengage in that conflict. Not just like, well, something mean was said, and game over. And I'm going to go deal with me, and now I'm writing that kid off.

But to say, okay, now that I've dealt with me, where did this come from? What's actually going on here is that that's choosing to engage in that conflict. There is tension there. It hasn't had a resolution. And can I go back to that student or that person who said or did something that was hurtful with some level of empathy, with some level of openness, and be in a place where I can actually receive and hear whatever it is that they may have to communicate, right?

And that definitely has been some, like, well, you did this and I don't like that. And receiving critical feedback. But that's a learning opportunity, right? I have found so many helpful nuggets about what does or doesn't work for people when they're frustrated and they have that safe space, for lack of a better word, to communicate those things, even if it is more tense like there's tension around it.

But the learning that can happen by engaging in that conflict in a safe way. Psychological safety, emotional safety, and engaging in that conflict by truly being present, I can capture those things and then be able to do something about it, potentially in the future.

I love that teacher timeout thing. Fantastic. But something else you said stuck out to me, asking them, Hey, where did that come from? That question sticks out because that shows them that you actually care. Like, you actually want to know, why did this happen? And that probably will cause a lot of people to pause and be like, wait, what? You're asking me this? And that might start a really good conversation. It might take all the tension out of it because they're like, Oh, I was trying to hurt you, or I accidentally hurt you. And you are wondering why that is such a good picture in my head right now, of a great way to, I don't know what you want to call it. Diffuse a situation and show empathy. I love that so much.

Yeah. I actually had a student call me out on that one time when I kind of went, Oh, okay, I'm going to pause here for a second. And I came back, and the kid flipped it on me. I hadn't even said anything yet. And they looked at me and they said, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to hurt you, but can you tell me how I hurt you? And it was like, oh, cool question.

That is a great question. Yeah, that's cool.

Well, I think we're already kind of hinting at some of these introspective and reflective moments, so I think we'll call it a pause here and catch up next week all about what are we doing with those reflections, and, of course, with the new year season right around the corner where we're going with it.

All right, until next time, Flora, talk to you next week.


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