For this high-leverage practice this week, we are talking about teaching cognitive and metacognitive strategies to support learning and independence. I've got Lathyrelle back with me this week. She is one of our school psychs, and we've been having a lot of conversations offline before recording about just the complexity of how this one shows up. My background is kind of educators view some of this cognitive and metacognitive learning as being outside of the classroom or outside of their areas of expertise or things that are more common in neuropsych and more clinical.

But there's some very practical ways that this shows up within our students, within the education environment, but it also looks completely different across developmental levels. And so if that's an age group like your pre-k, your early learners all the way up until your high schoolers, or if it's your cognitive capacity, if you've got, you know, working in with individuals with lower incidence disabilities and some cognitive challenges.

So how this shows up and what those strategies are, it's so different. And so there isn't that clean conversation to have here. So I'm excited to see, Lathyrelle, for you in your practice when you're looking at those cognitive and metacognitive strategies, like, how is that showing up? Either with the students you're working with or maybe even with the staff that you're supporting?

Like you said, it's very complicated. I think the main thing is that, when you're first starting out, you have to meet people where they're at. Whether it's the student or the teacher, you have to meet them where they're at and move from there, because depending on where that person is, is going to really guide how you work with them and what level you can actually push them to, because it's going to be a push.

So that's something that you have to keep in mind when you first start to reach into this area. One of the things you have to kind of also teach is kind of helping them be mindful of what they're doing in the moment. It's very hard to look into your own behavior and how you're thinking in the moment. So it's good to have someone observe with intention to teach you what you're doing and how you can improve or things that you're doing great on that you can just build upon.

So I think that's one of the things, is that you have to teach a mindfulness approach to how they are teaching this to someone else or how you're teaching this to someone else. So basically thinking about your thinking. So we talked about that earlier. One of the things you also have to work on is knowing and being able to accept that feedback. I think that's one of the things that's very hard for people because you're not hearing all the positive things that you're doing, but you also hearing a lot of negative things that you can work on.

So I think you also have to be mindful of how you receive that feedback and what you do with that feedback. So overall, I think if you are mindful in understanding where that person is, how they're going to receive your feedback and working with them at the level that they're at, that that'll build up their capacity to teach someone else how to self regulate, how to organize, how to solve problems, and be mindful of what they're doing in that moment.

Another thing is that you have to give them tools. You have to teach those tools. You have to believe in those tools that you're giving them to help teach that mindfulness. One of the things I've learned is that not everybody's on board with the fidgets, as I taught…- You know I did PD's for trauma informed classrooms. We talked about cool down areas and calm down rooms and things like that, and the type of things you'll have in your classroom to support that.

And one of the first things I say is that you need to know what type of fidgets you want in your room. It's not a free for all. It's not something that you just take whatever fidget somebody gives you. If you know that little noises irritate you, you may not want pop-its, you may not want things that make noise, but you might want the little spinners because that could be somewhat quieter. So that's something I always teach people and give them some control over that environment in their classroom. 

The other thing that we emphasize, because it was two of us doing these PD's, was the fact that when you're teaching self regulation, you have to teach it like a classroom lesson. You teach it, you talk about the expectations and you have to test to see if they know what you taught them. They have to practice it, you have to remind them to use it.

And sometimes you have to stop and start from the beginning just because they may not be using things correctly. I had one classroom where a teacher actually had to break down his calm down area because the kids had used it like it was a recess room. So it was like they were throwing toys and they were just drawing all over the papers and they were taking things out of there, not returning it. And he actually broke it down.

And within two weeks, the kids actually wrote me a letter asking to bring more materials for the calm down area. They wrote him an apology letter about not using it appropriately. And after that happened, and I brought things back and helped them rebuild it, and we taught them again how to use the items properly, we didn't have any issues with the calm down area in our classroom. In fact, we started using his classroom as a perfect example of how students don't use things properly. You have to teach them how to use it, and then sometimes you have to be sorted again.

So that's just something that you have to be mindful of where you're at and what you're willing to teach other students. And just know that you have to start all over again if it doesn't work out.

That's such a cool example, because yes, there's a consequence associated with the choices, right? So they made choices, there was a consequence, and now they're kind of working back from that consequence. But then in order to maintain it on the other side of it, there is a lot of those cognitive/metacognitive strategies that have to be in place for them to know, hey, am I using these materials the way I'm supposed to be using them? Hey, you're not using those materials the way that you're…- we're going to lose it. You know, like all of those types of things. You've actually created a situation in which they have to learn and perform some of those higher level strategies to be able to figure out, are we actually doing what we need to be doing and are we doing it in the way that we need to be doing it?

And then, of course, the cool thing from that is that, sure, okay, we're using the stuff the way we're supposed to be using it. Well, if it's actually meeting those needs that they're designed to meet, now all of a sudden we're tapping into really what it's there for. So it's more than just we're following the rules or we're not following the rules. Now we're able to look at going, oh, now I can actually regulate myself. I'm finding myself calming down. I know when I need to step away and use that space. And now when I'm ready to return back to my work or whatever demands are placed on me, that's the win, right? And it's just starting from something as simple as, hey, you're screwing around with stuff. You can't do that.

And it's gone, and now it's back. And now we're learning how to use it appropriately. Now we're actually getting the benefit of using it appropriately.

You're right about that. And with the same classroom, I remember visiting one day, and one of the students came to me and said, hey, one of the other students (and they said the student's name), she's having a hard time in our group today. And she has, you know, she's had tears in her eyes. Do you think we have anything that could help her? And so not only was this child mindful of their own behavior, but they were mindful of others in their group and came to seek an adult, to actually ask for assistance and things like that. And so that made me go back and go, okay, well, maybe some journaling might help with her.

And so I gave the student a journal book to give to them, to that student, and she actually used it. And again, I reached out to the other supports in the school, and they were aware of this student, and that was one of the things that we ended up actually doing a plan for so that she could have someone to talk to outside the classroom, scheduled breaks and things of that nature. And so that kind of taught her how to be mindful of her feelings in the moment and using the things in the building, the resources in the building, to help her get through the day.

And these are all fifth graders at this point. So this is someone that, you know, she's going to take these skill sets and all of them are going to take these skill sets into middle school with them and hopefully use it and build upon it. But in the beginning, it was a playroom for them. They were using that…- we can't go outside today because it's raining? Well, we're going to use the calm down area to play with the fidgets. And they took it from that level to losing it, to gaining it back and then growing upon the experience from using it appropriately. So it was a good example, and it was one of those proud moments that you have as an educator in the field.

Yeah. Those moments where you're like, it does work!

Yes.

Well, when you were first kind of explaining how these strategies show up in your practice, one of the things that you commented on is there's this connection with feedback. And it wasn't until you said that that I made the connection to go, I work with a lot of students that they don't receive feedback or they don't want to hear it. It's not necessarily a feedback issue. It's actually, can they receive the feedback?

And so I know a lot of times I'm pulled into creating intervention plans, and they're all wanting to target non compliance or defiance, when in reality there is that metacognitive component of am I even understanding the feedback that's being provided to me, and am I receiving it in a way that I can then actually make change over? So there's actually two other high leverage practices that are all about providing feedback.

Like, one, how am I providing feedback on academic or instructional learning? And then one, on the social, emotional, behavioral learning, providing feedback so that then behavior change can happen. But truly, both of them are somewhat contingent on that metacognitive capacity of, can I actually receive that feedback? So then the art in those high leverage practices would be, how am I giving that feedback?

And so the way you're explaining walking students through understanding here's what it's for, and here's how this shows up, and here's how we're learning and developing and growing through it. You're modeling that with them and for them to the point that then they're noticing, hey, maybe this other person needs that kind of help, too. And, like, that's next level, right? I think I've worked with elementary students that are just so astute and just very aware, but they don't always have the outlet for some of those things. And it could be just because some of their metacognition is just a lot further down the road than maybe some of their peers.

Yes. And the other thing about that is that when you're providing feedback, you have to have a technique. You just can't blurt things out. One of the techniques that we use in general, that I've used in general, is the sandwich method. And so I use this a lot with parents. You want to give them something good to talk to them about. Then you talk about what you really want to talk about, which may be negative and they may not want to hear it, but you kind of soften the blow a little bit when you have something positive to say to them about their child, and then you end with something positive.

And so you might have to do that with students as well, because guess what? That student that you need to give feedback to, usually is probably hearing bad things about them all the time. So even if it's something as small as I saw you share a pen with your peer, and such and such today. I saw you give a high five or something. Oh, I like your sneakers. Just so they can hear something positive.

We live in a world that we are always trying to fix everything, that we forget that some things are already in place because people work hard to get that way. And nobody says good job. Nobody says thank you for those things. Those kids that don't receive that, those are the ones you're probably seeing in your classroom with behaviors. So when you provide that feedback, try to start off with something positive and then also be mindful of the language that you use when you're providing that feedback on the negative. You know, you don't want to be punitive.

You don't want to make it seem like, oh, this is happening again. You're not really trying. But you want to give the feedback of, I saw this. You want to be very concrete about what you saw with your observation and very matter of fact. You want to leave your emotions out of it because once you become emotional, they're going to become emotional because, again, that goes into regulation. So you're the one that's guiding them, not the other way around.

So you want to be very concrete. You want to say what you observe, and then you want to give them a solution to how to change that behavior, not just, oh, you did this wrong. You need to fix it. No, tell me how I can fix it. Give them some options, and then you want to give them something positive, something they can leave with that's positive. Remember how you did this yesterday? I wanted to see you do it again tomorrow.

You know, that was awesome. Or come see me before you go to class. Give them something to look forward to, to have them come back. Because that's also how you develop relationships, and that makes teaching them self regulation and strategies in the classroom a lot easier because they have that friendship and that not necessarily friendship, but they have that relationship with you. So those are some of the things that when you're providing feedback that you have to be mindful of, especially when you're dealing with students or even adults that are sensitive when it comes to things like that because you never know what people are dealing with at that moment.

That's for real. Yeah. I appreciate how you're framing that, though, because what you're talking about is yes, there's strategies. You just broke down some very specific approaches of, do this, do this this way in this order. But you're also talking about that because of the way that we're doing that, we are establishing a relationship. We are establishing a rapport that then when students don't have those metacognitive capacities or they're still learning them, and so they're kind of disjointed and they're not always really where they should be, or we have weird misperceptions or those kinds of things, if there is that consistency, that relational capacity, like the relational capital that's already built in, they're going to be more open and more willing to walk that to then learn that, which then means that as adults, we need to be modeling these things in our interactions just by how we're doing what we're doing. We're actually demonstrating these skills because then they see it on display, and then they can start understanding it, and then they can start trying it, and then they are actually just doing it.

But that comes from adults modeling and being those examples and not just doing it, but even walking it through. I mean, I'm thinking of when I was doing math intervention, doing the think out louds, that there is an aspect of that in our social, emotional, behavioral learning as well that is what then can set our students up to then be able to step into that with us.

Yes. And people also need to be very mindful of…- Children are sponges. Whether you think they're watching you or not, whether you think they're listening to you or not, they see what you're doing, they hear what you're saying. So even if you're not addressing them, they see how you talk to other adults. And again, you're modeling like you say. So if you're modeling bad behavior between adults, that's how they think relationships between adults are supposed to be.

Guess what happens? Not only are they going to treat their peers that way, but they're going to treat you that way because you have modeled that for them. So those are some of the things, as a professional in the classroom setting, that, yeah, they may not see it at home or when they're outside playing, but you can model that within your classroom. So at least at that moment in that timeframe, they know how to interact with each other in that classroom.

So they can also be mindful of how others can work in the classroom with them, how they work with their peers. Because you also see how, and some parents don't like this, some kids don't like this, but you see them start to address other people's behavior in the classroom. Like, you know, we’re supposed to go outside for an extra five minutes. We put all our stuff away like she asked. So you're going to have that student, but there's other students that's going to help that other student get on track.

So those are some of the things that you need to model and be accepting of when you're with your peers as an adult. So when the principal comes in, they say, hey, can you do this, that, and the other, it shouldn't be no. It shouldn't be why? And if it's a thing of that nature, then can I speak to you outside or can I speak to you at another time in regards to that? Because, again, the kids are watching, and as they watching you, they're going to implement that behavior with their peers and with other adults and things of that nature. So that's also something you have to be mindful of. And like I said, the kids are sponges. They are learning all that information.

They're processing it all the time. It doesn't shut off. It doesn't stop because they're playing a video game. They're still listening and watching.

They may not always be learning what you're teaching, but they're definitely learning what you're doing.

Yes, exactly.

Well, one more thing I want to make sure that we have an opportunity to talk about real quick. We were talking about it before we were recording. I really appreciated how you connected metacognitive processing with mindfulness. And I know you've used the word being mindful the whole time we've been having this conversation, and it wasn't a connection that I had made until you and I were talking. So can you speak a little bit more to where you were saying, the mindfulness, and that's what helps us regulate attention. It's what helps us kind of know our place in space at that moment. That that's mindfulness, but it's also positioning us so that we can think about thinking. We're slowing the world down enough that then we can actually be present and then engage in those metacognitive strategies, too.

Yes, and that kind of goes along with the fidgets. So if you notice that with kids or just adults, you'll notice that when they're watching something, they start clicking a pen or they're shaking their leg. Kids that have fidgets, they start spinning with the fidget a little bit more. They're moving around a lot. But when you ask them a question, they can raise their hand and answer. They are releasing that negative energy or the anxiety that they have inside of them.

It's something where they can concentrate on without actually concentrating on it, if that makes sense. So their energy is being released through their hands so their mind doesn't have to worry about what the teacher is saying as well as the anxiety. The anxiety is coming out in the movement, but the focus is actually in their mind, and they're focusing on what the teacher is saying. So it's a little complicated, but it's really on a neurological level, a very basic level, because once you get that anxiety, once you get that energy out, you're able to focus on things that you really need to focus on at that higher level.

So that's really where that comes from and that's why we give kids fidgets. It takes that level of anxiety out into something that's movement that's acceptable, while allowing the brain to do higher level thinking and focus on what is being taught to them in the classroom. So that's kind of like where that thinking comes from.

Thanks for taking a second to talk about that, because I know sometimes people, when they refer to mindfulness, have kind of this ethereal disconnect approach to it, as opposed to the way you were describing it, with metacognition, which is very heavy science, like, all of those things. I wanted to make sure that we connected the dots on that because I definitely had not really put that together until we were talking before we hit record. So thanks for sharing that, I appreciate it.

All right, well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk through how these things show up in practice. It's super complex, and it looks so different for all kinds of different populations. But thank you for bringing your expertise.

You're very welcome and thank you for having me again. And I love talking about this information and making sure that people really understand the different techniques and interventions that we use throughout the day for our students and the reasoning behind it, because some things are just presented to us and they tell us to use it. So when you delve a little bit deeper into it, you understand the reasoning behind it and it does make sense. You just have to have someone kind of explain it to you and research it for you and put it in very layman terms instead of using all these technical jargon that you may not understand.

So I really appreciate you having me here to give a chance to explain that.

Yeah, well, thanks for being that person. I appreciate it.

You're welcome.