Co-Regulation in the Classroom:
The Behavior Support Infrastructure You Can’t See

Well, so let's go there. I mean, in behavior analysis, we would refer to this as learning history. So then how do nervous systems and learning histories show up? I mean, you just kind of gave a couple of small, quick examples, but I do truly believe they're really linked. I don't think you can have a learning history that isn't showing up in your nervous system somehow.Can you put some more words around that?

I mean, to get super practical, I love just little scales of one to 10, even to have on a desk of- and different people I work with like to call it different things: emotional capacity, love tank, focus tank. And as much as it helps, I think, teachers to see what if we had a classroom where you look out across the desks- this is probably for younger ones- and you can actually see where each student is. So you can see the ones that are at a 10, like, "I'm showing up today," and you can see the ones that are on the lower end and, "I'm struggling." That's good for a teacher.

I think it's huge for students just to be able to say and see, like, "Okay, I'm here. I'm here." Which, again, goes back to that noticing about, "Where am I at right now?" Because kids will just say, "I'm bored," right, when they're actually hungry. Or even the temperature of a classroom for a student with ADHD can have a big effect on their ability to sit still. Sleep, you know?There's all these other factors, and I think just getting that, students to realize, like, "Okay, I'm actually tired. That's what's going on right now." Yeah, again, just bringing up that awareness.

So if we're looking at bringing that kind of right now awareness into whatever space it is that we're sharing, some of that is, I think, as you were just saying, coming from whatever their experiences really in life have been to date, that they are interpreting their right now through the lens of whatever their life has given them. Can you walk me through what that nervous system experience is when we're trying to co-regulate, but the right now is actually just a little microscopic moment of the entire life they've had to date?

My mind's going so many different places right now. And I think part of it, my head goes clinical of, you know, let's get a history, let's get an understanding of all of these things, but the teacher doesn't have that, right?

Yeah, not necessarily.

Like, you havethings in front of you. You have things in front of you right now, today. And so, yeah, considering that the past is a lens through which we view the present, I think for someone trying to manage 15, 20, 30 students in a classroom, I think just having that awareness that what you're seeing isn't necessarily a reaction to what's happening right now. It's a reaction to the right now, but it has been informed by a past that, apart from a massive psychological evaluation, you're never gonna know. But I think just knowing that, because I work with people who are like, "Hey, we've done all the stuff.You know the things. Why are we not doing this?" And for me, it helps me be a better clinician when I know, like, "Okay, I'm only seeing a snippet. There is a history here that I'm not aware of." And I think even just having that consideration in mind helps me be a little bit more gracious, be a little bit kinder, understand that I might be seeing a reaction and not a response yet. I always like to say, ‘yet,’ this isn't definitive. So just having that understanding that there's a lot that I'm not seeing right now, and I never will, and I can deal with what's in front of me.

Well, I think that's true for me too, though, because a number of times that one of my students would be coming at me pretty hot, it was so grounding for me to recognize this might have something to do with me, but it may not. And just giving myself that space to say, "If it's mine, I will own it." Like, that's always been true for me. If I've done something or if I came across in a certain kind of way that this is the response that I'm getting, then let's walk through that, and let's figure out how that's making sense on both of our sides. But if you're just coming at me hot because there's something else going on and that I'm just kind of aware that is coming out, well, then I don't need to be defensive. I don't need to be thinking through all of the things that I did or how did I get, no, that's not me, right? I'm just in that situation. So holding that space to say like, "Hey, this is just a responsive reaction to something.”And I don't know what that is yet, but I'm here to kind of be curious and learn and figure that out, which puts me in a completely different headspace than if I were to just see them coming at me. Like, it's just a very different interaction.

Yeah. That's so good. And I'm even thinking of times where- I don't know if you said the word, but taking it personally. Even in my practice sometimes, I just mentioned, like, "Hey, we've done all the work. Why are you not doing the thing? What do you hate about me?" It's like, "Your class isn't dysregulated because you're a bad teacher." Especially for teens who can use some words to really do some damage. It's not personal. And I think just knowing that, like, "You're not mad at me. This is not actually what's going on right now. This is a history."

Because yeah, to your point, if you do feel like, "Hey, I'm doing all the right things," and you're not, it becomes a personal thing. And so now we start reacting out of a personal place of hurt, which then goes back to what we said from the very beginning of just being able to notice that. Like, "All right. I'm getting a little elevated right now. I'm gonna choose to bring it down. Maybe they won't, but I can own my space."

Yeah. I mean, in those moments, I've definitely worked with some students where they have spouted off, and then I'll just be like, "Okay, do you feel better now?" And they just, "Wait, what?" There's just this reaction of like, "Wait, I just read you the riot act, and your first question is, 'Do you feel better now?'" Or-

Because they're trying to dysregulate you. Like, they are not okay, and they want you to not be okay. Because we all know, we've all been, exactly to your point, we've all been dysregulated. Another person will just be like, "You cool?" And it, nothing feels worse than that. If they're like, "No, I guess I'm not actually." That's why I love that you said that, Heather, just kinda calling that out.

Well, I mean, sometimes too, it's like, you get that kind of, "Wait, what? That's not the reaction I was expecting." Which then opens up this opportunity, because typically my follow-back to that was, "What's actually going on here?"Because if there's some legitimate point of feedback in this interaction that I need to receive, I'm game. Let's go. But if this is something else going on, if there's another way that I can connect you to supports that you might need, game on. But like, whatever this is may or may not be what it actually is, so here's the opportunity.

And just kind of opening that. And sometimes they take it, sometimes they wouldn't. That was fine. But it was just one of those, like, "We're not gonna let this escalation train just run rampant." "And if you do need something out of this, we can make that connection for you."

Oh, I love that. I love that. I don't know why I thought of it now, but I don't think this is a conversation we'd be having 20 years ago, maybe. I think, I don't wanna sound like an old curmudgeon, but the regulatory abilities of classrooms today are very different from before. And I think a lot of teachers who wanna be educators have now found themselves in a space where they're being more, I don't wanna overuse the word regulators, but they're more having to get into kinda what you were just talking about, kinda like the nuances of like, well, what's really happening here, where we'd like to be able to go to a class, sit down, impart information and lead future generations. But that's just not the world we're living in right now. And I don't know if that's helpful for some teachers to hear, like, your experience is normal and acceptable, but also probably not what a lot of people signed up for. It's definitely something I can see is getting a little more difficult in newer generations. But I think that's why it's important to have these conversations, right, that we're having right now, rather than just saying, "Well, back in my day, I had to sit through school for 8 hours." Well, times are different.

Well, and I think sometimes this is a bit stereotypical on my part. Typically in the younger grades, they're sort of like this, curating young minds and the love of learning. And, yes, there are specific things they need to learn at different grade levels. Like, not overlooking that at all. But typically as an educator, I'm showing up to help students learn. Whereas sometimes in secondary, by the time you're hitting middle school, high school, now you're starting to get into more content experts. And so I have found a shift from at the elementary levels, teachers maybe kind of just sort of knowing that students are gonna be a little off.

This just sort of comes with the territory, and that's part of what I'm here for, because them learning themselves is part of them learning all this academic stuff that I need to get them to learn as well. But by the time I get into secondary, then it's like, "But I love social studies,” and I just really want world history, or whatever that topic is that I'm nerding out on. I want my students to nerd out on that with me. And sometimes, like, ugh, all this regulation stuff just gets in the way of the cool stuff that we're actually here to do.

If you're running a science lab or having this amazing literary dialogue where you're wrestling with hard thoughts, all of these things that you find kind of that academic draw as an educator, that sometimes the, kind of the human experience, just that normal, we're like, "You're a human, I'm a human. We're in this space together," can sometimes be a little bit more overlooked in secondary spaces than it is in elementary. So I'm wondering, as you're listening to me kinda talk through how these different educators are potentially showing up in these different spaces, how do they keep themselves regulated?

I mean, I'm coming at it from a secondary perspective. I know you're definitely drawn into some of the younger populations. So, as adults we’re showing up dysregulated.But we're also still responsible for running that space, engaging in that interaction appropriately. How do we keep ourselves regulated so that we can actually co-regulate with those around us?

Yeah. That's a hard question for me to answer generally. And maybe that's just because I'm used to dealing with specific people. But to try to tackle it from a general viewpoint, I'll start with kind of something I touched on earlier: I think we outsource regulation a lot. You know, says the guy over here, through a cup of coffee by the time this is all done. Or even, I'll give an example of something that I learned for me is after work, I’m a big podcast or audiobook guy. First thing I do is, before I pull out of my parking spot, is put on an audiobook, go home.

And I'm not even aware of what I'm bringing home. Like, I didn't take any time. I just literally went straight from the office. Or maybe the most practical step would be to ask the question of yourself, "In what ways do I outsource my nervous system? In what ways do I use other things to calm me?” And some of those things are gonna be healthy. We harp on just eating healthy and exercising. I hate to admit it, but I tell so many clients, "If you just do that, you won't need me."

But just even something as practical as a little bit of movement, even just a 5-minute walk where we just really take time to be like, "Where am I at right now?" I actually do this. Hopefully this isn't completely derailing us, but I'll ask some clients to go take a walk outside, and I'll just sit, and I'll watch, and I'll be like, "Why'd you walk so fast? What are you trying to get here?" And just be like, "I don't know. I'm stressed." I'm like, "Well, you wouldn't have noticed that if you didn't even move." And so, yeah, I think really just paying attention to the ways that, how do I regulate? Do I even try to?

And I, I think I wanna put in a little caveat here. It's hard to go from a 9 to a 2.And I think we just need to understand that and just be kind to yourself about that, owning where you are, not trying to force it. But that was a very long-winded way of saying it just starts by noticing, which starts by giving time for that, and it doesn't take a lot of time. It just takes a simple deep breath.

Well, so before we started recording, I know the example may feel a little bit extreme depending on where different educators are showing up, like which community spaces they're working in, but you were talking about for folks with addictions, outsourcing that to other activities, other substances, those kinds of things, and the work. Like, that's a lift to then choose to go through me cognitively processing dysregulation as opposed to legitimately outsourcing. That's the clearest example of outsourcing that regulation to something that is not me, I think, of anything that we've talked about in this episode.

But I think it's also really relevant because as adults, I think we have our own ways of outsourcing it. It may be to our own addictions and other ways of coping. But there are lots of ways, I think, in adulthood that if, I don't know, maybe seem more socially appropriate at certain ages or in certain social circles. But it's still the same. We're just legitimately outsourcing that regulation so that we're not even learning or practicing that ourselves, and now we're turning around and trying to help our students do it.

DBT is becoming really popular today, dialectical behavioral therapy, and really a lot of what it is is mindfulness, I mean, to oversimplify it, which really just comes down to just being aware. And I can't think of a single client that I've worked with where we don't do some sort of somatic intervention that really is just slowing down. I think that's touching on something of why I think it is hard to regulate ourselves is because it takes a little bit of time. It doesn't take a ton of time. I'm not telling people to go for an hour run or to go completely on a vegan diet. I think just little ways. Like, for me, just taking that 15-minute drive home and not listening to anything, just taking some time to see how I'm feeling. It may be boring, but yeah, just taking that little bit of time just to notice and figure out, "Hey, how can I actually affect myself right now in this, this space?"

That feels so much more doable. I've been in a lot of trainings and a lot of spaces where we're talking about co-regulation, and they're like, "Okay, take X deep breaths and count this way or touch your fingers together," or all of these different tactics and strategies. And, yes, to all of these things, but I also appreciate how you're just saying to just pause. Just pause and notice. And whatever shows up in that for you, great. Follow that and be aware of that because then you can actually start making choices from it. But it's not this magic checklist of here's all these regulatory activities, or here's the things that you put in your calming corners, or here's the posters that you need. It's not necessarily that. Those can be supportive and helpful, but it all comes from: can you just pause and notice?

Yeah. I'm gonna share a testimony. I listened to a podcast, and it was somebody who's talking about trying to take a 5-minute walk every 30 minutes. But I have been between sessions when I have time, trying to take a simple walk from the front of my office outside to the back. I try to make it take 5 minutes. I can do it in 2. But there's something that's been really helpful about deliberately just walking slower. I know that sounds crazy, but just taking that time to be like, "No, I want to go do more work. I wanna get my notes done.I wanna get those articles done.” I wanna do all those things. And when I'm done with those things, I'm gonna have more of those to do. And so for me, this has probably been going on for a month and a half now, so probably 4 times a day, 6 if I'm good about it, I will walk from my office to the back outside and come back and make sure it takes 5 minutes. And I have noticed that makes a huge difference for me, especially sessions later on in the day where I almost feel like I wanna get through it quicker, but it's gonna be 50 minutes one way or another.

I've noticed I can sleep better, which is weird, but I promise you. I notice I'm less anxious at the end of the day. I notice I talk slower at the end of the day. So literally maybe 20 minutes of walking a day in 4 little increments has been huge for me. And it really is just me giving myself the space to say, "Okay, where am I at right now?" Because I could easily just get on my phone and scroll. I could easily just reply to emails. But for me personally, just even doing that has been huge. And I think at the end of the day, it really is gonna come down to what each person does individually. You, you mentioned tapping fingers or even, like, a little fidget where you just immerse yourself in it. Yeah, I think it's really just taking the time. And I don't think it would take people long to say, "Hey, what helps me check in?" And just doing that thing.

Yeah. And I do appreciate that your examples are not these grand examples. That they are things that you can do while you're also doing other things. I mean, listening to you talk about walking in a certain space at a certain time, like- It made me realize that I was probably doing that in my classroom and I didn't even understand that that's what I was doing, because there was something very regulating about just making a couple passes around the classroom and picking up papers and the random pencils and all the random stuff that just landed everywhere by the end of last class period when one walks out and I have 3 minutes as the next one is rolling in.

I always viewed it as me being able to kind of reset the space, and then the next group always knew kind of what was coming in. But I don't think I fully recognized for me, yeah, I was just getting up and moving, and that was also helpful. Granted, as a teacher, I'm very active. Up and walking around and checking in and moving. So, I was never a very sedentary teacher. But yeah, I think there's probably an aspect too that was the moment where I could have random conversations with students as they were going or coming, or different staff members would stop in and out, and it was just a very grounding experience to reset before I walk into the next class period, the next topic, and for me, I was teaching different subjects too, so, like, completely shifting my mind in those moments. I just never thought about it that way.

And I know we're running out of time, but you just said something that I'm, I'm so happy you did, because I'm hearing the word as deliberate. And I think that's really important: doing something deliberate to own your space, to own what's happening in your world right now. It feels empowering. I know that may not be the best word that I wanna use, but, when there's so much going on, when there's so much chaos, when teachers are constantly around how many different human beings in a day and how many large groups, just to be able to even take a deliberate sip of coffee or of water and to just say, like, "Hey, I'm going to just be calm right now and be present right now." And that goes back to just a lot of the mindfulness, a lot of the grounding.

So yeah, it doesn't have to even be me getting up and going out of my office. Good luck doing that as a teacher when you come back in. But it could just be something like what you're saying of, like, "Hey, I'm just gonna take a little walk around the classroom for me as much as for them, just to own my body, own my space." I love that you touched on that.

Well, thank you for making co-regulation not this big, scary clinical concept, but that it truly is just showing up. Like, sharing space, acknowledging what's going on for me, and then attempting to the best of our abilities outside of each other to maybe try to acknowledge what's going on in you too, or at least help you start to be able to do that for yourself. So thank you for having this conversation with me. I really appreciate it.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm, I'm so happy you wanted to bring this up. This is something that I end up working through with clients almost every day, so I'm happy we're having the discussion.

Jonathan is such an understated guy. He spends his days doing incredibly nuanced and emotional work supporting adults and families where addictions and trauma are their norm. Yet, he translates that work beautifully into understanding educational spaces through the family units that are part of the classroom service that we are all engaging in around here. That's why I knew he was the right person to talk about co-regulation, not as a soft add-on, but as infrastructure that makes all other supports possible. It's not just a nice-to-have. It really is a need-to-have, and it actually is as simple as cognitively pausing and noticing, even when I'm running down the hall to respond to a crisis. So if there's anything I can leave you with this week, it would be this co-regulation anchor.

I'm gonna ask you to choose one moment tomorrow when you usually feel that stress spike. So maybe it's when you're walking in the building, maybe it's right after lunch, maybe it's being around that one student. Choose that one moment. Then plan a speedy personal check-in. This could be just taking a full chest, full belly breath. It could be a statement that you repeat to yourself. It could be physically moving, a stretch. It could even be looking at some kind of a scale to pick a number of where you are at. Whatever it is for you, some small, speedy personal check-in. Then practice it.

Don't talk about it. Just name it as, "This is how I show up for me." Pick that one moment, figure out how you wanna check in with yourself, and just let it be. Because co-regulating with all of those students and all of our colleagues around us truly is as simple as cognitively pausing and noticing. So thank you so much for joining another episode of "Little Bits of TLC," and we will see you next time.